Ads-b and sailplanes

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:02:28 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
After we cycled it off and on a couple of times, my PCAS started to show the correct altitude, so we assumed that we had "fixed" whatever the problem was.

i'm guessing ATC in that sector was surprised to see you climb 6,000ft in altitude, and wondering about that piece of tin that was now heading away from you at your altitude.

....Boy, for a supposedly redundant posting that was utterly covered by prior posts, this thread sure grew legs

AeroSports Update: An ADS-B Choice For Experimental Aircraft
The NavWorx ADS600-EXP Is An ADS-B Solution That Is Tailored Towards The Experimental Aircraft Market
NavWorx, Inc. claims they were the first to announce a truly affordable solution for experimental and LSA aircraft owners with the release of its ADS600-EXP. This announcement came on the heels of the FAA's ADS-B rule interpretation in February that devices must meet the "performance requirements" of TSO-C154c, but do not have to be TSO'ed.
NavWorx says their ADS600-EXP is a complete ADS-B solution for experimental and LSA aircraft. The ADS600-EXP communicates with a wide variety of display systems via Wi-Fi and RS232. For a limited time, NavWorx is offering the ADS600-EXP at a price of $869.00.
Design of the NavWorx ADS600-EXP is based on the company's ADS600-B, a FAA TSO/STC certified unit. Both comply with the ADS-B mandates of TSO-C154c and TSO-C145c. The ADS600-EXP is a Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) and provides full ADS-B Out and In operations.
All ADS600 UAT devices come with NavWorx' patent-pending TransMonSPETM. This device installs on the aircraft's existing transponder coax cable to provide for single point of entry of the squawk code, ident, and Mode A/C. TransMonSPETM also provides pressure encoder data to the ADS600-series. It meets the FAA's requirement to have a single point of entry for the squawk code, and satisfies the specification that requires both the transponder and ADS-B to use the same pressure encoder. TransMonSPETM is TSO certified and will interface with older transponders eliminating any need to replace the transponder or altitude encoder.
NavWorx ADS-B solutions are also available for type certificated aircraft offering solutions for operators with a variety of installation requirements.. The company also offers pre-built harnesses and coax cables.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?d...9-2e656d396961
Reprinted with permission from Aero-News.net

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 4:14:47 PM UTC-7, wrote:
AeroSports Update: An ADS-B Choice For Experimental Aircraft
The NavWorx ADS600-EXP Is An ADS-B Solution That Is Tailored Towards The Experimental Aircraft Market
NavWorx, Inc. claims they were the first to announce a truly affordable solution for experimental and LSA aircraft owners with the release of its ADS600-EXP. This announcement came on the heels of the FAA's ADS-B rule interpretation in February that devices must meet the "performance requirements" of TSO-C154c, but do not have to be TSO'ed.
NavWorx says their ADS600-EXP is a complete ADS-B solution for experimental and LSA aircraft. The ADS600-EXP communicates with a wide variety of display systems via Wi-Fi and RS232. For a limited time, NavWorx is offering the ADS600-EXP at a price of $869.00.
Design of the NavWorx ADS600-EXP is based on the company's ADS600-B, a FAA TSO/STC certified unit. Both comply with the ADS-B mandates of TSO-C154c and TSO-C145c. The ADS600-EXP is a Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) and provides full ADS-B Out and In operations.
All ADS600 UAT devices come with NavWorx' patent-pending TransMonSPETM. This device installs on the aircraft's existing transponder coax cable to provide for single point of entry of the squawk code, ident, and Mode A/C. TransMonSPETM also provides pressure encoder data to the ADS600-series. It meets the FAA's requirement to have a single point of entry for the squawk code, and satisfies the specification that requires both the transponder and ADS-B to use the same pressure encoder. TransMonSPETM is TSO certified and will interface with older transponders eliminating any need to replace the transponder or altitude encoder.
NavWorx ADS-B solutions are also available for type certificated aircraft offering solutions for operators with a variety of installation requirements. The company also offers pre-built harnesses and coax cables.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?d...9-2e656d396961
Reprinted with permission from Aero-News.net

A nice price point (for experimental aircraft), but a UAT only (not 1090ES) Out/In only device. The big issue there is it won't make that aircraft visible to a PowerFLARM via ADS-B... which is why towplane owners who need to meet the ADS-B Out 2020 carriage mandate will hopefully wait for the market to improve and do ADS-B out with 1090ES.

Dual Receiver option 1090ES RECEIVER ADD-IN for $89.

http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store...DS600_EXP.html

On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:26:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Dual Receiver option 1090ES RECEIVER ADD-IN for $89.

http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store...DS600_EXP.html

That still won't make any aircraft equipped with this visible to a PowerFLARM.

On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:59:01 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 4:14:47 PM UTC-7, wrote:
AeroSports Update: An ADS-B Choice For Experimental Aircraft
The NavWorx ADS600-EXP Is An ADS-B Solution That Is Tailored Towards The Experimental Aircraft Market
NavWorx, Inc. claims they were the first to announce a truly affordable solution for experimental and LSA aircraft owners with the release of its ADS600-EXP. This announcement came on the heels of the FAA's ADS-B rule interpretation in February that devices must meet the "performance requirements" of TSO-C154c, but do not have to be TSO'ed.
NavWorx says their ADS600-EXP is a complete ADS-B solution for experimental and LSA aircraft. The ADS600-EXP communicates with a wide variety of display systems via Wi-Fi and RS232. For a limited time, NavWorx is offering the ADS600-EXP at a price of $869.00.
Design of the NavWorx ADS600-EXP is based on the company's ADS600-B, a FAA TSO/STC certified unit. Both comply with the ADS-B mandates of TSO-C154c and TSO-C145c. The ADS600-EXP is a Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) and provides full ADS-B Out and In operations.
All ADS600 UAT devices come with NavWorx' patent-pending TransMonSPETM. This device installs on the aircraft's existing transponder coax cable to provide for single point of entry of the squawk code, ident, and Mode A/C. TransMonSPETM also provides pressure encoder data to the ADS600-series. It meets the FAA's requirement to have a single point of entry for the squawk code, and satisfies the specification that requires both the transponder and ADS-B to use the same pressure encoder. TransMonSPETM is TSO certified and will interface with older transponders eliminating any need to replace the transponder or altitude encoder.
NavWorx ADS-B solutions are also available for type certificated aircraft offering solutions for operators with a variety of installation requirements. The company also offers pre-built harnesses and coax cables.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?d...9-2e656d396961
Reprinted with permission from Aero-News.net

A nice price point (for experimental aircraft), but a UAT only (not 1090ES) Out/In only device. The big issue there is it won't make that aircraft visible to a PowerFLARM via ADS-B... which is why towplane owners who need to meet the ADS-B Out 2020 carriage mandate will hopefully wait for the market to improve and do ADS-B out with 1090ES.

At this price point, there are going to be a lot of GA aircraft buying this, or similar UAT products, to meet the 2020 mandate. That's reality folks. If you buy PowerFlarm, you're not going to see these aircraft. Do you really want to invest in this kind of half baked technology?

On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 8:19:53 AM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:

At this price point, there are going to be a lot of GA aircraft buying this, or similar UAT products, to meet the 2020 mandate. That's reality folks. If you buy PowerFlarm, you're not going to see these aircraft. Do you really want to invest in this kind of half baked technology?

Oh bull****. You still need a Mode A/C or Mode S transponder to get full use of airspace, and to get ANY protection from TCAS-equipped jet. NO-ONE will be UAT only ADS-B out, IMO. Why would they?

And guess what, with my PowerFLARM, RIGHT NOW, I get excellent warning of ALL Mode A/C/S and 1090ES ADS-B traffic in my vicinity, as well as really good glider anti collision warnings.

Mike, your bias is noted. But at least try to be honest with the facts.

Kirk
66

On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 11:08:28 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 8:19:53 AM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:

At this price point, there are going to be a lot of GA aircraft buying this, or similar UAT products, to meet the 2020 mandate. That's reality folks. If you buy PowerFlarm, you're not going to see these aircraft. Do you really want to invest in this kind of half baked technology?

Oh bull****. You still need a Mode A/C or Mode S transponder to get full use of airspace, and to get ANY protection from TCAS-equipped jet. NO-ONE will be UAT only ADS-B out, IMO. Why would they?

And guess what, with my PowerFLARM, RIGHT NOW, I get excellent warning of ALL Mode A/C/S and 1090ES ADS-B traffic in my vicinity, as well as really good glider anti collision warnings.

Mike, your bias is noted. But at least try to be honest with the facts.

Kirk
66

Let's all be honest with the facts. Saying that PowerFlarm gives you "excellent" warning for Mode C equipped aircraft is a stretch. What you are really getting is a warning that tells you the altitude of the potential threat aircraft, and a rough estimate of its distance, based on some crude assumptions from the received power level of the transponder signal. Other than that, you have absolutely no idea where this aircraft is.

If this A/C is UAT ADS-B OUT equipped, this is all you will see with your PowerFlarm system. With a properly designed ADS-B receiver (either dual frequency or one supporting TIS-B and ADS-R), you would see the exact position of this aircraft within ~50 ft. If you had a NavWorx or similar transceiver, and you were within range of an ADS-B ground station, using TIS-B, you would also see the location of every other transponder equipped aircraft that is visible to ATC, regardless of whether or not it was ADS-B OUT equipped.

PowerFLARM is the only ADS-B receiver being sold in the US that is not designed to properly handle the dual frequency UAT / 1099ES environment that is the reality in US airspace. This is a huge shortcoming in the product that raises a lot of questions about the competency of the design team that put this system together.

On 5/4/2015 3:18 AM, Mike Schumann wrote:
PowerFLARM is the only ADS-B receiver being sold in the US that is not designed to properly
handle the dual frequency UAT / 1099ES environment that is the
reality in US airspace.

Like many things you continually repeat Mike, this simply isn't so!

You can buy many single frequency ADS-B receivers. Mine (made by Dual)
also lacks the PCAS feature that is built in to Powerflarm.

Why did I buy it? Mostly for the free FAA weather.

Vaughn