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United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 12th 17, 10:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting, aus.aviation, alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns, sac.politics
Christopher[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

In article
Wayne wrote:

On 4/11/2017 6:43 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/04/2017 7:51 AM, Air Gestapo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STJQnu72Nec

Find us on http://www.facebook.com/flightorg. On the 9th April,
2017, a man was forcibly removed from United Airlines Flight
3411 in Chicago, set for Louisville. While we'd normally say
that until we have all the information, we have no information
at all, the United response tends to confirm the incident as
described by passengers. United Airlines said that ... "Flight
3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked. After our team
looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the
aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to
the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation."


It's a difficult situation. If a person refusing to leave were allowed
to stay, then passengers would never comply. If force has to be used to
remove a non-compliant passenger, then that's what has to be done.

Bumping passengers in favour of its own staff looks strange, but it may
be that if those staff weren't carried, it would have knock on effects
for other flights.

To my mind, the proper solution to the overbooking problem is either to
ban it outright (given that it's deliberate, not just a mistake), or to
require that the airline just keep offering more and more money until
they do get the needed volunteers. If that means they have to offer tens
of thousands of dollars, then so be it - that's the price of overbooking.

Sylvia.

But United ****ed up the deal from the gitgo.


That they did and they need to pay heavily for it.

The overbooking problem should have been solved before boarding.


Agree 100%. United knew they had to accomodate their crew
members.

If $800 won't get 4 passengers to volunteer, then try $1000, etc.
United should never have told boarded passenger that four had to leave
to make room for employees.


Agree.

And then United just said to hell with it, let the cops throw the guy
off. The cops are only interested in submission and compliance totally
by the book. He's lucky LAPD wasn't involved or he would have been shot.


Shot multiple times and they would have killed a couple
passengers for good measure.

This is what happens in cities under Democrat control.

Ads
  #22  
Old April 12th 17, 10:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting, aus.aviation, alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns, sac.politics
White Ryder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

In article
Petzl wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:52:41 -0500, First-Post
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:15:00 +1000, Sylvia Else
wrote:

On 12/04/2017 3:08 PM, First-Post wrote:

I haven't done the math myself but I've read articles that say so far
United has lost around $700 million thanks to this fiasco that was
effectively caused by their desire to make every single seat on every
flight profitable. Their stock has fallen like a rock.

The market can penalize screw ups worse than any court.


The $700 is a reduction in market capitalisation, not a loss made by the
company. The stock will bounce back.

Sylvia.


Yes but in the eyes of the stock holders it is a big loss to them. And
if it doesn't rebound fast enough and high enough, the CEO may very
well see the end of his tenure.


The Aircraft was not over booked.
Those seated were given boarding passes and seated
The four made disembark were all Asian so selection was not random
Four "staff" turned up at last minute not booked requiring seats.
Three of the Asian passengers left quietly.


Maybe the selection priority should have been blacks, Mexicans,
Asians. We could have seen some cops get punched and beaten
before they pulled guns and started shooting everybody.

After this Asian guy wins his lawsuit, United might as well
paint black eyes on each cockpit window because this will never
ever go away.

It's going to haunt them like Pan Am Flight 103.

  #23  
Old April 12th 17, 11:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
Petzl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:30:47 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote in news:el5f1bFb5krU1
:


To my mind, the proper solution to the overbooking problem is either to
ban it outright (given that it's deliberate, not just a mistake),


Overbooking is intentional. It is done to try and ensure paying
passengers for all flights.

The plane was full, not over booked.
Four un-booked "staff" turned up last minute requiring seats

or to
require that the airline just keep offering more and more money until
they do get the needed volunteers. If that means they have to offer

tens
of thousands of dollars, then so be it - that's the price of

overbooking.

The maximum is $1350 and it is usually in the form of a voucher which can
be used on other flights on that same airline. It used to be the cost of
the ticket for a later flight and a dinner at the airport. It could also
include an overnight stay at a local hotel if the later flight was
tomorrow.


I would expect an airline has the right to remove anyone it wants to?
However United Air abused this privilege
--
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"
  #24  
Old April 13th 17, 12:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
Stitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

On 12 Apr 2017, Petzl posted some
:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:52:41 -0500, First-Post
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:15:00 +1000, Sylvia Else
wrote:

On 12/04/2017 3:08 PM, First-Post wrote:

I haven't done the math myself but I've read articles that say so
far United has lost around $700 million thanks to this fiasco that
was effectively caused by their desire to make every single seat on
every flight profitable. Their stock has fallen like a rock.

The market can penalize screw ups worse than any court.


The $700 is a reduction in market capitalisation, not a loss made by
the company. The stock will bounce back.

Sylvia.


Yes but in the eyes of the stock holders it is a big loss to them. And
if it doesn't rebound fast enough and high enough, the CEO may very
well see the end of his tenure.


The Aircraft was not over booked.
Those seated were given boarding passes and seated
The four made disembark were all Asian so selection was not random
Four "staff" turned up at last minute not booked requiring seats.
Three of the Asian passengers left quietly.


He was an arrogant chink. Who do these people think they are anyway?
Having a job, earning money, being responsible and paying taxes. Having
the means to fly. The nerve of this guy anyway. How dare he?

If he was an illegal alien or radical Muslim, United Airlines would
already be hanging by the neck, hoisted by their own petard.


  #25  
Old April 13th 17, 02:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting, aus.aviation, alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns, sac.politics
Coonologist
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

In article
Stitch wrote:

On 12 Apr 2017, Petzl posted some
:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:52:41 -0500, First-Post
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:15:00 +1000, Sylvia Else
wrote:

On 12/04/2017 3:08 PM, First-Post wrote:

I haven't done the math myself but I've read articles that say so
far United has lost around $700 million thanks to this fiasco that
was effectively caused by their desire to make every single seat on
every flight profitable. Their stock has fallen like a rock.

The market can penalize screw ups worse than any court.


The $700 is a reduction in market capitalisation, not a loss made by
the company. The stock will bounce back.

Sylvia.

Yes but in the eyes of the stock holders it is a big loss to them. And
if it doesn't rebound fast enough and high enough, the CEO may very
well see the end of his tenure.


The Aircraft was not over booked.
Those seated were given boarding passes and seated
The four made disembark were all Asian so selection was not random
Four "staff" turned up at last minute not booked requiring seats.
Three of the Asian passengers left quietly.


He was an arrogant chink. Who do these people think they are anyway?
Having a job, earning money, being responsible and paying taxes. Having
the means to fly. The nerve of this guy anyway. How dare he?

If he was an illegal alien or radical Muslim, United Airlines would
already be hanging by the neck, hoisted by their own petard.


Now United and the hateful left-wing racist mass media are going
after this Vietnamese refugee / naturalized American citizen
with a vengeance.

They went and dug up dirt from 50 years ago in an effort to make
him look bad to trivialize the abuse actions by Chicago police
and United Airlines employees.

Talk about two tools of the state. United and AT&T, both
enemies of the American public.

  #26  
Old April 13th 17, 02:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
Sylvia Else
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

On 13/04/2017 5:21 AM, Christopher wrote:

The priority here is those who pay. Shuffling crews around is
an airline's problem and should never affect passengers.

I used to fly a lot and I've seen crews from different airlines
traveling on other carriers numerous times. There is no reason
United couldn't have re-accomodated their crew on another
airline.


Well, we don't know the details. Perhaps there were no seats available
on other airlines, and the staff were needed at their posts on time, or
it *would* affect passengers.

Sylvia.

  #27  
Old April 13th 17, 03:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
de chucka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

On 12/04/2017 2:03 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/04/2017 12:06 PM, de chucka wrote:
On 12/04/2017 11:43 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/04/2017 7:51 AM, Air Gestapo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STJQnu72Nec

Find us on http://www.facebook.com/flightorg. On the 9th April,
2017, a man was forcibly removed from United Airlines Flight
3411 in Chicago, set for Louisville. While we'd normally say
that until we have all the information, we have no information
at all, the United response tends to confirm the incident as
described by passengers. United Airlines said that ... "Flight
3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked. After our team
looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the
aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to
the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation."


It's a difficult situation. If a person refusing to leave were allowed
to stay, then passengers would never comply. If force has to be used to
remove a non-compliant passenger, then that's what has to be done.

Bumping passengers in favour of its own staff looks strange, but it may
be that if those staff weren't carried, it would have knock on effects
for other flights.

To my mind, the proper solution to the overbooking problem is either to
ban it outright (given that it's deliberate, not just a mistake), or to
require that the airline just keep offering more and more money until
they do get the needed volunteers. If that means they have to offer tens
of thousands of dollars, then so be it - that's the price of
overbooking.


There is absolutely no excuse for overbooking flights and bouncing
booked passengers with valid tickets. In this case they bounced him down
the aisle


If they didn't overbook, then there'd be many more flights with empty
seats when people didn't show up.


As the seat has been paid for what difference does it make if the seat
is empty?

If you were an airline exec wouldn't
you been looking at those seats, and wishing you could earn some money
from them.


In fact they get paid twice for the same seat


The problem is not the overbooking, but how it's handled when, as
occasionally happens, too many people actually turn up.

There is absolutely no excuse for overbooking flights and bouncing
booked passengers with valid tickets.



  #28  
Old April 13th 17, 05:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
Petzl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:35:00 -0000 (UTC), Stitch
wrote:

On 12 Apr 2017, Petzl posted some
:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:52:41 -0500, First-Post
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:15:00 +1000, Sylvia Else
wrote:

On 12/04/2017 3:08 PM, First-Post wrote:

I haven't done the math myself but I've read articles that say so
far United has lost around $700 million thanks to this fiasco that
was effectively caused by their desire to make every single seat on
every flight profitable. Their stock has fallen like a rock.

The market can penalize screw ups worse than any court.


The $700 is a reduction in market capitalisation, not a loss made by
the company. The stock will bounce back.

Sylvia.

Yes but in the eyes of the stock holders it is a big loss to them. And
if it doesn't rebound fast enough and high enough, the CEO may very
well see the end of his tenure.


The Aircraft was not over booked.
Those seated were given boarding passes and seated
The four made disembark were all Asian so selection was not random
Four "staff" turned up at last minute not booked requiring seats.
Three of the Asian passengers left quietly.


He was an arrogant chink. Who do these people think they are anyway?
Having a job, earning money, being responsible and paying taxes. Having
the means to fly. The nerve of this guy anyway. How dare he?

If he was an illegal alien or radical Muslim, United Airlines would
already be hanging by the neck, hoisted by their own petard.

He was just one of four "chinks" removed by airline security (not
police) three did not argue.
--
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"
  #29  
Old April 13th 17, 06:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
RD Sandman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

Petzl wrote in
news
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:30:47 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote in news:el5f1bFb5krU1
:


To my mind, the proper solution to the overbooking problem is either
to ban it outright (given that it's deliberate, not just a mistake),


Overbooking is intentional. It is done to try and ensure paying
passengers for all flights.

The plane was full, not over booked.


Not enough is known for me to argue with you. The point is that the
plane was full, airlines can and do overbook to ensure that all seats are
filled.

Four un-booked "staff" turned up last minute requiring seats


Yes, they had to be at the arrival airport for duties. I would assume
those duties included working on another flight from that airport.

or to
require that the airline just keep offering more and more money
until they do get the needed volunteers. If that means they have to
offer

tens
of thousands of dollars, then so be it - that's the price of

overbooking.

The maximum is $1350 and it is usually in the form of a voucher which
can be used on other flights on that same airline. It used to be the
cost of the ticket for a later flight and a dinner at the airport. It
could also include an overnight stay at a local hotel if the later
flight was tomorrow.


I would expect an airline has the right to remove anyone it wants to?
However United Air abused this privilege


No argument on that point.

--

RD Sandman

Airspeed, altitude and brains....two of the three are always
required to complete a mission.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #30  
Old April 13th 17, 07:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,aus.aviation,alt.law-enforcement,talk.politics.guns,sac.politics
RD Sandman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default United Airlines, We put the "Hospital" in "Hospitality"!

First-Post wrote in
:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:33:24 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote in
:

On 12/04/2017 12:06 PM, de chucka wrote:
On 12/04/2017 11:43 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/04/2017 7:51 AM, Air Gestapo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STJQnu72Nec

Find us on http://www.facebook.com/flightorg. On the 9th April,
2017, a man was forcibly removed from United Airlines Flight
3411 in Chicago, set for Louisville. While we'd normally say
that until we have all the information, we have no information
at all, the United response tends to confirm the incident as
described by passengers. United Airlines said that ... "Flight
3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked. After our team
looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the
aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to
the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation."


It's a difficult situation. If a person refusing to leave were
allowed to stay, then passengers would never comply. If force has

to
be used to remove a non-compliant passenger, then that's what has

to
be done.

Bumping passengers in favour of its own staff looks strange, but it
may be that if those staff weren't carried, it would have knock on
effects for other flights.

To my mind, the proper solution to the overbooking problem is

either
to ban it outright (given that it's deliberate, not just a

mistake),
or to require that the airline just keep offering more and more
money until they do get the needed volunteers. If that means they
have to offer tens of thousands of dollars, then so be it - that's
the price of overbooking.

There is absolutely no excuse for overbooking flights and bouncing
booked passengers with valid tickets. In this case they bounced him
down the aisle


If they didn't overbook, then there'd be many more flights with empty
seats when people didn't show up. If you were an airline exec

wouldn't
you been looking at those seats, and wishing you could earn some

money
from them.

The problem is not the overbooking, but how it's handled when, as
occasionally happens, too many people actually turn up.


Pretty much. The problme in this case is that the passengers were
bounced to make room for United employees who are not fare paying
passengers.


They probably could have easily talked some economy class passengers
to take a different flight if they simply offered them first class
fair on another flight, even if it had to be on a competitive airline.

The broader picture I get from this incident is that United and likely
a few other airlines seem to have forgotten that they are in a
customer service industry. They may legally be able to treat
passengers like they are conscripts in the military but just because
you can do something doesn't mean that you should.


I would assume you to be correct.

Lastly, the four employees big emergency was that they had to be at a
meeting the next day.


Aaah, I thought that perhaps they were needed for another flight from the
destination airport. I have been on many flights where airline personnel
were being flown to their duty station for the day. A stewardess friend
of mine lived in Waco but often flew out of Dallas or New Orleans. She
would fly to the airport where her day started.

The whole situation could have been avoided had
United simply rented the employees a nice car and let them make the 4½
hour drive which still would have had them in Louisville in plenty of
time to have dinner, settle in and still get a full night's sleep
before their meeting the next morning.
And it wouldn't have cost the airline as much as those 4 non paying
seats did.


And still may. It appears that the doctor suffered broken teeth, broken
nose and a concussion. It ain't over, mon ami.



--

RD Sandman

Airspeed, altitude and brains....two of the three are always
required to complete a mission.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 




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