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Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 1st 07, 06:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Kwyjibo
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Posts: 10
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation


"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007

snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

--
Kwyj.


Ads
  #2  
Old November 1st 07, 07:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Sylvia Else
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Posts: 58
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007

snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.


No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.

Sylvia.
  #3  
Old November 1st 07, 02:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Arnold Sten
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Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007

snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

Those four plane crashes were, in my opinion, not accidents, but
deliberate and pre-meditated acts of suicide and murder. To me, that
would explain why those did not make the list.
  #4  
Old November 1st 07, 06:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
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Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:31:06 +1100, Sylvia Else
wrote in
:

Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007

snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.


No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.

Sylvia.


The terrorist attacks may not have resulted in increased aviation
safety (despite the best efforts of the TSA), but they very
significantly altered aviation in the US and the world.

Relieved the airlines of the expense of passenger screening.

Established port security as an inherently governmental function.

Temporarily shutdown the entire NAS with the exception of the
Bin Laden family's expeditious flight out of the country.

Spawned a plethora of VIP TFRs that continues today.

Implemented mandatory background checks for flight students.

Created a new ADIZ over Washington DC.

Impacted airline captain job satisfaction[1]

...



[1] http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle2063130.ece
Enough security checks
At least one pilot in airline Widerøe has opted for early
retirement rather than continue to endure the security routines at
Norwegian airports.

Tom Erik Liverud, head of Widerøe's pilot union confirmed this to
newspaper Adresseavisen.

A captain chose to retire early primarily because of what he
called "security madness".

"He is happy to be retired and finished with this. This is a
marked contrast to some years ago when pilots were sad to give up
their dream jobs when they passed 60," Liverud said.

Just a few days ago a Widerøe pilot delayed a departure from
Namsos for refusing to take off his shoes in a security check, and
reportedly screamed - 'I am no terrorist!'.

This problems is most acute on the short hop networks where pilots
and other crew may have to go through security checks up to ten
times a day, all year round, even if their exit and re-entry is
due to a trip to the toilet or to get a cup of coffee.

"The security demands are all for show and in some situations are
counterproductive. All a pilot needs to crash a plane is his
hands. It feels meaningless to use so many millions of crowns
without even carrying out a risk analysis," Liverud said.

The Norwegian Airline Pilots Association believes that flight
crews should have separate arrangements, like customs officers and
police, who are allowed to freely pass through airport security
checks when on duty.

  #5  
Old November 1st 07, 11:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Kwyjibo
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Posts: 10
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation


"Arnold Sten" wrote in message
. ..
Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007

snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given
the drastic changes that resulted.

Those four plane crashes were, in my opinion, not accidents, but
deliberate and pre-meditated acts of suicide and murder. To me, that would
explain why those did not make the list.


Ahh, but the title of the article is "Ten Plane *Crashes* That Changed
Aviation", not "Ten Plane *Accidents* That Changed Aviation".
No reason for them to be excluded, given the massive changes to aviation
that resulted worldwide.

--
Kwyj.


  #6  
Old November 2nd 07, 12:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
[email protected]
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Posts: 27
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

On Oct 31, 11:31 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007

snip


Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.


No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.


I'd argue that there have been significant increases in safety
since those attacks. I'll go so far as to predict that there will
be no more succesful airliner hijackings in the rest of my lifetime.

But the reason has absolutely nothing to do with the government's
many actions. They could stop screening passengers entirely,
and hijackings still wouldn't be feasible.

The reason has everything to do with the change in public
consciousness. If you did a survey on Sept 10, 2001, asking
people what is the safest course of action if they're a passenger
on an airliner when someone stands up and announces that
the plane is being hijacked, most people would've said to
stay quiet, lay low, cooperate, and don't attract attention.
Up until then, hijacked passengers and flight crew members
could expect to survive the ordeal if they followed those rules.

Since that time, the correct course of action has
changed to, "If you want to live, do whatever it takes
to disable or kill the hijackers, at all costs. Do not
cooperate at all under any circumstances."

THAT is what has put an end to airliner hijacking.

  #7  
Old November 2nd 07, 12:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Sylvia Else
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Posts: 58
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:31 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip
Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.


I'd argue that there have been significant increases in safety
since those attacks. I'll go so far as to predict that there will
be no more succesful airliner hijackings in the rest of my lifetime.

But the reason has absolutely nothing to do with the government's
many actions. They could stop screening passengers entirely,
and hijackings still wouldn't be feasible.

The reason has everything to do with the change in public
consciousness. If you did a survey on Sept 10, 2001, asking
people what is the safest course of action if they're a passenger
on an airliner when someone stands up and announces that
the plane is being hijacked, most people would've said to
stay quiet, lay low, cooperate, and don't attract attention.
Up until then, hijacked passengers and flight crew members
could expect to survive the ordeal if they followed those rules.

Since that time, the correct course of action has
changed to, "If you want to live, do whatever it takes
to disable or kill the hijackers, at all costs. Do not
cooperate at all under any circumstances."

THAT is what has put an end to airliner hijacking.


Well, yes, that's what I had in mind. The September 11th style
hijackings were already impossible on the 12th. The crashes that changed
aviation article was about changes to practice and construction that
resulted from the investigation, not about changes to passenger behaviour.

It's a shame the Ethopian Airlines hijacking didn't occur after 9/11.
The majority of the passengers died in the ensuing ditching, but the
hijackers didn't really have a bomb.

Sylvia.
  #8  
Old November 2nd 07, 01:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Nobody
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Posts: 9
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Arnold Sten wrote:
Those four plane crashes were, in my opinion, not accidents, but
deliberate and pre-meditated acts of suicide and murder. To me, that
would explain why those did not make the list.


Perhaps that Cypriot 737 that crashed in Greece should be considered an
important one. Not because of failure of pressurisation system, but
because the politicians, after 9-11, mandated a hurried implementation
of the locked cockpit door system which proved fatal in the Cypriot 737
crash since the remaining conscious crewmember was prevented from
entering the cockpit to save the situation until the door unlocked when
fuel ran out, but by then, it was too late.


There is also the issue of aircraft wiring. It wasn't a single
accident/crash that changed aviation, but rather realisation after a
number of incidents that aircraft wiring was a big problem. And in the
case of the UA 747 near Hawaii, the conclusion was changed years later
from human error to faulty aircraft wiring. TWA800 and SR111 were the
more obvious accidents.


The early A320 problems also showed that FAA and other certification
agencies had antiquated testing procedures that did not ensure the
software on an aircraft was reliable. Most of the A320 problems did not
result in a crash, but still showed that the aircraft was put into
service with less than acceptable software quality which should have
been spotted before the aircraft entered commercial service. Aircraft
certification tests were revised and subsequent aircraft introductions
were far more reliable.


I'd have to say though that Comet was probably the biggest one since it
made engineers realise that pressurisation cycles affect aircraft
structure and that has been a major impact on all subsequent aircarft.
  #9  
Old November 2nd 07, 03:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation


"Sylvia Else" wrote

Well, yes, that's what I had in mind. The September 11th style hijackings
were already impossible on the 12th. The crashes that changed aviation
article was about changes to practice and construction that resulted from
the investigation, not about changes to passenger behaviour.


What difference does it make, how the lack of future hijackings came about?
If it is increased security, stronger cockpit doors, or more vigilant
passengers, the change produces the same result. I think the 9-11 change
should be at the very top of the list. No credit should go to the airlines,
though. All the credit is due the passengers.
--
Jim in NC


  #10  
Old November 2nd 07, 03:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,aus.aviation
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation


"Nobody" wrote

I'd have to say though that Comet was probably the biggest one since it
made engineers realise that pressurisation cycles affect aircraft
structure and that has been a major impact on all subsequent aircarft.


Hard to argue that, but I think it is important because of the style of
reconstructive investigation that grew from figuring out the crashes. It is
the standard that all modern investigations grew from.
--
Jim in NC


 




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