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Crosswind landing control..



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 06, 03:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Dan[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default Crosswind landing control..

All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan

  #2  
Old December 4th 06, 03:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Crosswind landing control..

Use the rudder not the wheel... it would be very bad practice to put
pressure on the nose-wheel. Your concern is slowing the plane down to
get it to a speed where the nose wheel will be effective, for that you
need back pressure and brakes, which is why the mains need to be firmly
on the ground to give them the best grip.
Dan wrote:
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan


  #3  
Old December 4th 06, 04:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
BT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 995
Default Crosswind landing control..

I would not apply forward pressure to the stick. I would apply heavier than
normal braking to get more weight on the wheels, and apply back pressure at
the same time so the decelleration does not throw more weight onto the nose
tire/strut. Heavier than normal braking tends to flat spot tires if the
weight is not fully on the mains.

Wheel barrowing is a common occurance on landing when a pilot forces the
airplane to land before it is ready.
Common evidence of wheel barrowing in Cessna's is damage to the lower fire
wall, sometimes to the point that day light is seen through the seperation.

BT

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan



  #4  
Old December 4th 06, 04:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
A Lieberma
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default Crosswind landing control..

"Dan" wrote in news:1165200901.919197.150950@
16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com:

Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?


Anytime the plane is rolling too fast, the potential for wheelbarrowing can
happen whether it be landing or take off.

For me, I do the opposite in my Beechsundowner.

After landing, after all three wheels are firmly on terra firma, WHENEVER
POSSIBLE, I hold the yoke full aft until the plane slows down enough that
the stabilator has no effect on keeping the pressure off the nosewheel
(similar to a softfield landing technique).

I want the weight to remain on the mains as long as I can so I can prevent
the chance of nosewheel shimmy as well as wheelbarrowing down the runway.

Allen
  #5  
Old December 4th 06, 04:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
N2310D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default Crosswind landing control..


"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.


To paraphrase my instructor: The only thing the nose wheel should be used
for, is to keep the prop from striking the ground.


  #6  
Old December 4th 06, 04:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Dudley Henriques
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Posts: 269
Default Crosswind landing control..

Applying forward pressure during the rollout is a bad idea. It can cause a
slew (no pun intended :-) of problems. Just concentrate on maintaining
directional control with rudder and let the nosewheel settle in naturally
at touchdown .
If needed, you should be holding some aileron in for wind correction during
this process. Retracting the flaps and holding in some back pressure will
help firm your mains.
I'm a great believer of not using forward pressure during touchdown and
rollout on landings in trikes. Shouldn't be necessary and it's dangerous.
Hold back pressure on the rollout. That will increase the pressure on the
mains and desensitize the nose wheel. On most trikes its important that the
nose wheel be straight at touchdown. Correct for drift with aileron and
maintain directional control with opposite rudder. The magnitude of the
pressure required to do this properly will also vary during the approach.
Just keep the speed a bit higher than normal for the crosswind and fly the
airplane. If you do everything right, the nose wheel will take care of
itself and be positioned correctly at touchdown.
Think of it this way; if your rudder work is good, and your alignment is set
up and executed correctly, and your aileron work is good and compensating
correctly for the drift, the nosewheel should be just fine. :-)
Dudley Henriques

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan



  #7  
Old December 4th 06, 04:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Andrew Sarangan[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Crosswind landing control..

There should never be any forward pressure on the yoke/stick during
landing. The yoke is always held back, never pushed forward. Perhaps
you mean reducing the back pressure. In that case, yes, it would be
proper to relax the back pressure somewhat quicker during a crosswind
landing to quickly transfer the weight from the wings to the wheels.
Howvever this technique is not really necessary except in the worst
crosswind (ie when it exceeds rudder authority).


Dan wrote:
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan


  #8  
Old December 4th 06, 04:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
BT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 995
Default Crosswind landing control..

AL, with the manual flaps, drop the flap handle to the floor..
remember.. those beeches say "do not use maximum braking with full flaps"
I've seen more than one beech skip down the runway flat spotting the tires

BT

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"Dan" wrote in news:1165200901.919197.150950@
16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com:

Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?


Anytime the plane is rolling too fast, the potential for wheelbarrowing
can
happen whether it be landing or take off.

For me, I do the opposite in my Beechsundowner.

After landing, after all three wheels are firmly on terra firma, WHENEVER
POSSIBLE, I hold the yoke full aft until the plane slows down enough that
the stabilator has no effect on keeping the pressure off the nosewheel
(similar to a softfield landing technique).

I want the weight to remain on the mains as long as I can so I can prevent
the chance of nosewheel shimmy as well as wheelbarrowing down the runway.

Allen



  #9  
Old December 4th 06, 05:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Tony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 312
Default Crosswind landing control..

I think someone else had suggested this, but it bears repeating. If the
flap control and the gear control are far apart, when you touch down
verify your fingers are on the flaps, then verify it again, then return
them to 'up'.

I'd be more confortable recommending this if you could take the landing
gear control off the panel and put it in your pocket after you selected
gear down at the OM, but. . .

In the Mooney in a cross wind I was happy sucking the flaps up when
starting the flare, but even after many hours, and the gear control
shaped like a wheel and the flap control shaped like a little flap, I
want to see my fingers on the flap control before retracting them!
Arrows have some airspeed device that commands gear down when you're
going slow, Mooneys do not.

Also in serious crosswinds touchdown speed was faster than I liked
because the Mooney really didn't have a lot of rudder authority -- I'd
have one side kicked all of the way in and still not be able to keep
the airplane pointing down the centerline.

One final thing, and do this only if you're really comfortable with the
airplane and know where it's going to touch down. In a strong
crosswind, land near the downwind side of the runway with the airplane
pointing toward the upwind side. On wide runways, the 70 feet of room
you have across the runway means you can gain 5 or 6 degrees less
crosswind (Changing runway 10 into runway 10.5 or so), and you're
changing some of the crosswind into a headwind.



On Dec 3, 10:45 pm, "Andrew Sarangan" wrote:
There should never be any forward pressure on the yoke/stick during
landing. The yoke is always held back, never pushed forward. Perhaps
you mean reducing the back pressure. In that case, yes, it would be
proper to relax the back pressure somewhat quicker during a crosswind
landing to quickly transfer the weight from the wings to the wheels.
Howvever this technique is not really necessary except in the worst
crosswind (ie when it exceeds rudder authority).



Dan wrote:
All,


When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.


Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?


--Dan- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -


  #10  
Old December 4th 06, 05:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
A Lieberma
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default Crosswind landing control..

"BT" wrote in
:

AL, with the manual flaps, drop the flap handle to the floor..
remember.. those beeches say "do not use maximum braking with full
flaps" I've seen more than one beech skip down the runway flat
spotting the tires

BT


Absolutely right BT!!!

First thing I do is raise the flaps as soon as all three wheels are on
terra firma.

It only took me once to "forget" on one of my earlier flights with this
plane and talk about skipping / skidding / slipping down the runway.

I was real lucky considering it was a wet runway at that, so it really was
the grace of God, I wasn't an "incident".

Haven't done it since (touch the brakes before flaps up), thats for sure
:-).

You can also bet I learn from my mistakes.

Allen
 




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