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#31
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
Why is ODP an emergency procedure?
Sam Spade wrote: Andrew Sarangan wrote: That is a very good observation. I would be interested to know how many airports there are where the difference between a missed and a departure procedure are significantly different to warrant consideration. You would have to justify that use of the ODP was prudent because it would be an exercise of emergency authority. |
#32
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
Why is ODP an emergency procedure?
It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the MAP at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not provide obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could certainly qualify as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course of action. The ODP would be a reasonable course of action in that circumstance, at least until a point at which the missed approach could be joined. Jose -- "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows what they are." - (mike). for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#33
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
In article , Sam Spade wrote:
His respone is 100% correct. not quite. Just as starting a missed approach procedure too early, flying the missed too late can put you into unprotected airspace. -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#34
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
Dave S wrote: wrote: On the garden variety Cat 1 ILS you are at 200 feet AGL and over the approach lights when you reach DH (decision height). How would it be "too late" to fly the missed approach? If you are genuinely concerned, pitch for VX instead of VY for any percieved obstacle clearance, but VY should suffice nicely. For many Cat1 aircrafts (especially B747/B744), a miss executed by the auto-land system is commonly for the aircraft to actually tough down the runway before it spoof up and flying the miss. I think a pilot should fly the miss for the precision approaches after abort landing. Abort landings happen not un-common. You can check the famous A321 cross wind abort landing video at http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...a nding&hl=en For the NPA, it is a tough call. It depends. |
#35
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
jbskies wrote: For many Cat1 aircrafts (especially B747/B744), a miss executed by the auto-land system is commonly for the aircraft to actually tough down.. Sorry, my mistake. I really mean Cat3 auto landing. |
#36
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP,
climb to the missed approach altitude but do not turn until reaching the MAP or that point indicated on the chart. If a turn is indicated, perform that turn as charted, but not prior to the expected position past the MAP. If a climbing turn is the missed approach procedure, an early miss requires a straight ahead climb to the MAP and then the turn. "Bob Noel" wrote in message ... | In article , Sam Spade wrote: | | His respone is 100% correct. | | not quite. | | Just as starting a missed approach procedure too early, flying | the missed too late can put you into unprotected airspace. | | -- | Bob Noel | Looking for a sig the | lawyers will hate | |
#37
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
Peter R. wrote:
wrote: Later, though, I started thinking about how this might have played out if I had been on an instrument approach. Say I was on an ILS (HAF has none, but pretend) at minimums, and I had to abort the landing after the MAP. The weather is way below circling, so I need to get back up again. It's too late to fly the missed. What can I safely do? The only thing that comes to mind is to fly a departure procedure like an ODP. If conditions were that low, no VFR aircraft would be taking off, and no IFR aircraft would be released until you landed or canceled IFR. You need to read more NTSB accident reports. Hilton |
#38
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
Jim Macklin wrote: On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP, climb to the missed approach altitude but do not turn until reaching the MAP or that point indicated on the chart. If a turn is indicated, perform that turn as charted, but not prior to the expected position past the MAP. From a well known instrument instructor and writer: I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS specified. Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble if you miss "early" inside the FAF. I've no objection if you DO it to feel good, but I don't believe it is a REQUIREMENT, built into the system. Best... John |
#39
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
The instrument approach provides terrain clearance along and
to a limited area either side of the final and missed approach path charted. A climb along the approach path is safe, but if you begin a turn prior to the charted location, you run the risk of hitting an obstruction. Consider a fictional IAP with a missed approach that calls for a right turn and going direct to a fix. If it is an ILS, the miss will start at 200 feet or lower from over the runway. But if you miss on the three mile final and start the turn (and climb) early, you would be about 700 at the start, but could also be abeam a TV tower. Perhaps most missed approaches can be flown differently, but flown to the design, on the track that was flight tested, it will work on any approach. "Newps" wrote in message . .. | | | Jim Macklin wrote: | On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP, | climb to the missed approach altitude but do not turn until | reaching the MAP or that point indicated on the chart. If a | turn is indicated, perform that turn as charted, but not | prior to the expected position past the MAP. | | | | From a well known instrument instructor and writer: | | | I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you | start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS specified. | | Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach | anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble | if you miss "early" inside the FAF. | | I've no objection if you DO it to feel good, but I don't believe it | is a REQUIREMENT, built into the system. | | | Best... | John |
#40
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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach
In article ,
Newps wrote: From a well known instrument instructor and writer: I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS specified. Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble if you miss "early" inside the FAF. Well, I don't know of any that actually would have a problem, however, I do know for a fact that (at least in the 2001 timeframe) the TERPS does NOT provide for any terrain protection if a missed approach procedure is started early. So that well known instrument instructor and writer might want to read up on the TERPS. -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
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