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Question of aborted landing after instrument approach



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 4th 06, 07:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Andrew Sarangan[_1_]
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Posts: 187
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

Why is ODP an emergency procedure?


Sam Spade wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:

That is a very good observation. I would be interested to know how many
airports there are where the difference between a missed and a
departure procedure are significantly different to warrant
consideration.

You would have to justify that use of the ODP was prudent because it
would be an exercise of emergency authority.


  #32  
Old December 4th 06, 08:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jose[_1_]
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Posts: 1,632
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

Why is ODP an emergency procedure?

It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the MAP
at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not provide
obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could certainly qualify
as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course of action.

The ODP would be a reasonable course of action in that circumstance, at
least until a point at which the missed approach could be joined.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #33  
Old December 4th 06, 11:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Bob Noel
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Posts: 1,374
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

In article , Sam Spade wrote:

His respone is 100% correct.


not quite.

Just as starting a missed approach procedure too early, flying
the missed too late can put you into unprotected airspace.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

  #35  
Old December 5th 06, 02:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
jbskies
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Posts: 12
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach


jbskies wrote:
For many Cat1 aircrafts (especially B747/B744), a miss executed by the
auto-land system is commonly for the aircraft to actually tough down..


Sorry, my mistake. I really mean Cat3 auto landing.

  #36  
Old December 5th 06, 04:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jim Macklin
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Posts: 2,070
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP,
climb to the missed approach altitude but do not turn until
reaching the MAP or that point indicated on the chart. If a
turn is indicated, perform that turn as charted, but not
prior to the expected position past the MAP.

If a climbing turn is the missed approach procedure, an
early miss requires a straight ahead climb to the MAP and
then the turn.


"Bob Noel" wrote in
message
...
| In article , Sam Spade
wrote:
|
| His respone is 100% correct.
|
| not quite.
|
| Just as starting a missed approach procedure too early,
flying
| the missed too late can put you into unprotected airspace.
|
| --
| Bob Noel
| Looking for a sig the
| lawyers will hate
|


  #37  
Old December 5th 06, 05:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Hilton
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Posts: 118
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

Peter R. wrote:
wrote:

Later, though, I started thinking about how this might have played out
if I had been on an instrument approach. Say I was on an ILS (HAF has
none, but pretend) at minimums, and I had to abort the landing after
the MAP. The weather is way below circling, so I need to get back up
again. It's too late to fly the missed. What can I safely do? The only
thing that comes to mind is to fly a departure procedure like an ODP.


If conditions were that low, no VFR aircraft would be taking off, and no
IFR aircraft would be released until you landed or canceled IFR.


You need to read more NTSB accident reports.

Hilton


  #38  
Old December 5th 06, 04:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Newps
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Posts: 1,886
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach



Jim Macklin wrote:
On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP,
climb to the missed approach altitude but do not turn until
reaching the MAP or that point indicated on the chart. If a
turn is indicated, perform that turn as charted, but not
prior to the expected position past the MAP.




From a well known instrument instructor and writer:


I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you
start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS specified.

Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach
anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble
if you miss "early" inside the FAF.

I've no objection if you DO it to feel good, but I don't believe it
is a REQUIREMENT, built into the system.


Best...
John
  #39  
Old December 5th 06, 09:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jim Macklin
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Posts: 2,070
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

The instrument approach provides terrain clearance along and
to a limited area either side of the final and missed
approach path charted. A climb along the approach path is
safe, but if you begin a turn prior to the charted location,
you run the risk of hitting an obstruction.
Consider a fictional IAP with a missed approach that calls
for a right turn and going direct to a fix. If it is an
ILS, the miss will start at 200 feet or lower from over the
runway. But if you miss on the three mile final and start
the turn (and climb) early, you would be about 700 at the
start, but could also be abeam a TV tower.

Perhaps most missed approaches can be flown differently, but
flown to the design, on the track that was flight tested, it
will work on any approach.



"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the
MAP,
| climb to the missed approach altitude but do not turn
until
| reaching the MAP or that point indicated on the chart.
If a
| turn is indicated, perform that turn as charted, but not
| prior to the expected position past the MAP.
|
|
|
| From a well known instrument instructor and writer:
|
|
| I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions
WHEREVER you
| start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP,
UNLESS specified.
|
| Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an
approach
| anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you
in trouble
| if you miss "early" inside the FAF.
|
| I've no objection if you DO it to feel good, but I don't
believe it
| is a REQUIREMENT, built into the system.
|
|
| Best...
| John


  #40  
Old December 6th 06, 12:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Bob Noel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,374
Default Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

In article ,
Newps wrote:

From a well known instrument instructor and writer:


I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you
start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS specified.

Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach
anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble
if you miss "early" inside the FAF.


Well, I don't know of any that actually would have a problem, however, I do
know for a fact that (at least in the 2001 timeframe) the TERPS does NOT
provide for any terrain protection if a missed approach procedure is started
early.

So that well known instrument instructor and writer might want to read up
on the TERPS.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

 




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