Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...

Have you ever been to one of those sessions? Third hand word says they
are time killers with no emphasis on paying attention or attendance.
Just mark in the book how many were there. "Cultual awareness" indeed

The stuff being written by people, both here and elsewhere on the net,
seems to me to indicate that they know very little about South Asian culture
at all and haven't even bothered to read the available literature on the
area, and especially the vast literature available about the NWF and
Afghanistan from the days of the British.

Despite all the warnings from everyone the word 'tribal' seems to indicate
Amerindian culture to all Americans. Perhaps if they'd used the word 'clan'
and the special vocabulary for dealing with clans earlier it would all have
been better, but it's too late now...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 11:55 pm, tankfixer wrote:
In article ,
says...





"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...

"tankfixer" wrote in message

Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.

It is indeed an absurd statement.

So why are they still bombing weddings?

Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't
like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad
p.r.?

I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.

I'd say your wrong.
There are any number of training publications stressing the need to
understand the culture in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

See:
ENGAGING AFGHANISTAN?THE MULLAH CONNECTION
by: CHAPLAIN (COLONEL) KENNETH L. SAMPSON
U.S. Army War College
CARLISLE BARRACKS

TRADOC DCSINT HANDBOOK NO. 2

That's two of the 101 documents CALL listed under
Cultual awareness.

--
Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste
Goode with Ketchup.

Have you ever been to one of those sessions? Third hand word says they
are time killers with no emphasis on paying attention or attendance.
Just mark in the book how many were there. "Cultual awareness" indeed

They may have handbooks, but obviously they're not well read.

Did someone just say "a few dozen" weddings have beem bombed????!!!!

- nilita

On Aug 18, 8:12*am, "La N" wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...



On Aug 17, 11:55 pm, tankfixer wrote:
In article ,
says...

"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...

"tankfixer" wrote in message

Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.

It is indeed an absurd statement.

So why are they still bombing weddings?

Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't
like
weddings? *What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad
p.r.?

I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.

I'd say your wrong.
There are any number of training publications stressing the need to
understand the culture in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

See:
ENGAGING AFGHANISTAN?THE MULLAH CONNECTION
by: CHAPLAIN (COLONEL) KENNETH L. SAMPSON
U.S. Army War College
CARLISLE BARRACKS

TRADOC DCSINT HANDBOOK NO. 2

That's two of the 101 documents CALL listed under
Cultual awareness.

--
Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste
Goode with Ketchup.

Have you ever been to one of those sessions? Third hand word says they
are time killers with no emphasis on paying attention or attendance.
Just mark in the book how many were there. "Cultual awareness" indeed

They may have handbooks, but obviously they're not well read.

Did someone just say "a few dozen" weddings have beem bombed????!!!!

- nilita

Yeah, me. There's enough showing up in the news that as a rough guess
its more than a handful. And whether its a wedding or a just friendly
tribal gathering of Omar and his buds, those clans have long
memories.

We joke about the Hatfields and McCoys, I remember a professor way
before Kosovo and all that, trying to beat into our American heads (he
was a ex Navy expert on the region) about how the Slavs thought. They
would dig up corpses and **** on them. And that's a civilized, Western
culture. Think about Afghanistan, and Kipling would feel at home
there, be amazed at the newfangled weapons and roads, but as far as
tribes, yeah, same as when he was there last time.

At least there is literature out there. 30 years ago there was
nothing, except if you were a linguist, but as far as how to deal with
the culture, the only thing was propaganda from the Saudis about how
much His Royal Highness was loved and he was upset again that somebody
in the US said something bad about him.

A local Lutheran is deploying with the troops and he noted in the
local paper he had a pile of reading to go through, in addition to all
the official military stuff. Ever been in the military, the higher up
you are the more stuff like this you get, some better than others. But
at least we're trying to get past the learning curve.

In any conflict like this, the best guys are the ones that go native.
But, that's not encouraged and there aren't enough people willing to
do it.

"frank" wrote in message
...
On Aug 18, 8:12 am, "La N" wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...



On Aug 17, 11:55 pm, tankfixer wrote:
In article ,
says...

"La N" wrote in message
news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...

"tankfixer" wrote in message

Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.

It is indeed an absurd statement.

So why are they still bombing weddings?

Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't
like
weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad
p.r.?

I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the
culture of the people on their side that they're killing.

I'd say your wrong.
There are any number of training publications stressing the need to
understand the culture in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

See:
ENGAGING AFGHANISTAN?THE MULLAH CONNECTION
by: CHAPLAIN (COLONEL) KENNETH L. SAMPSON
U.S. Army War College
CARLISLE BARRACKS

TRADOC DCSINT HANDBOOK NO. 2

That's two of the 101 documents CALL listed under
Cultual awareness.

--
Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste
Goode with Ketchup.

Have you ever been to one of those sessions? Third hand word says they
are time killers with no emphasis on paying attention or attendance.
Just mark in the book how many were there. "Cultual awareness" indeed

They may have handbooks, but obviously they're not well read.

Did someone just say "a few dozen" weddings have beem bombed????!!!!

- nilita

Yeah, me. There's enough showing up in the news that as a rough guess
its more than a handful. And whether its a wedding or a just friendly
tribal gathering of Omar and his buds, those clans have long
memories.

We joke about the Hatfields and McCoys, I remember a professor way
before Kosovo and all that, trying to beat into our American heads (he
was a ex Navy expert on the region) about how the Slavs thought. They
would dig up corpses and **** on them. And that's a civilized, Western
culture. Think about Afghanistan, and Kipling would feel at home
there, be amazed at the newfangled weapons and roads, but as far as
tribes, yeah, same as when he was there last time.

At least there is literature out there. 30 years ago there was
nothing, except if you were a linguist, but as far as how to deal with
the culture, the only thing was propaganda from the Saudis about how
much His Royal Highness was loved and he was upset again that somebody
in the US said something bad about him.

A local Lutheran is deploying with the troops and he noted in the
local paper he had a pile of reading to go through, in addition to all
the official military stuff. Ever been in the military, the higher up
you are the more stuff like this you get, some better than others. But
at least we're trying to get past the learning curve.

In any conflict like this, the best guys are the ones that go native.
But, that's not encouraged and there aren't enough people willing to
do it.

**********************

Yes, I've heard that about those who "go native".

And, btw, IIRC, is it practice to compensate the bereaved family members
financially - that is, on the part of the US?

- nilita

"frank" wrote in message
...

, but as far as
tribes, yeah, same as when he was there last time.

----------------------

They're not tribes. They function as complex clans but with an inclusive
sept system and extended families.

----------------------

At least there is literature out there. 30 years ago there was
nothing, except if you were a linguist, but as far as how to deal with
the culture, the only thing was propaganda from the Saudis about how
much His Royal Highness was loved and he was upset again that somebody
in the US said something bad about him.

----------------------

Utter rubbish. there's a huge literature relating to Afghanistan and the
NWF.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

William Black wrote:
"La N" wrote in message
news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83...
"tankfixer" wrote in message

Our friend has been claiming it is policy.
A most absurd statement IMHO.


It is indeed an absurd statement.


So why are they still bombing weddings?

Because Muslims still have not learnt that guns are not toys.

Andrew Swallow

On Aug 18, 12:37*pm, "William Black"
wrote:
"frank" wrote in message

...

, but as far as
tribes, yeah, same as when he was there last time.

----------------------

They're not tribes. *They function as complex clans but with an inclusive
sept system and extended families.

----------------------

At least there is literature out there. 30 years ago there was
nothing, except if you were a linguist, but as far as how to deal with
the culture, the only thing was propaganda from the Saudis about how
much His Royal Highness was loved and he was upset again that somebody
in the US said something bad about him.

----------------------

Utter rubbish. *there's a huge literature relating to Afghanistan and the
NWF.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

But in the United States, there was nothing as far as Middle East
Studies. Tons of Latin American Studies, which has pretty much died on
the vine. Still a lot of European Studies. But 30 years ago, outside
of possibly Harvard, nobody knew about it. Its not like in the UK
where you slogged through the Kyber Pass. Hell, Mandalay is probably a
musical instrument for all most Americans know.

We had a professor who was quoted as a national expert, his take was
to concrete over the Middle East as a solution. F%cking brilliant.
That pretty much was the state of what was taught on the Middle East
except if you were studying the language.

Over here, tea is something you toss in the harbor or get in bags.

At least now there is a fair amount of literature at least available
in the bookstores.

Whether anybody on the street in the Middle East thinks its anywhere
near truthful is another story.

On Aug 19, 12:24 am, frank wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:37 pm, "William Black"
wrote:



"frank" wrote in message

...

, but as far as
tribes, yeah, same as when he was there last time.

----------------------

They're not tribes. They function as complex clans but with an inclusive
sept system and extended families.

----------------------

At least there is literature out there. 30 years ago there was
nothing, except if you were a linguist, but as far as how to deal with
the culture, the only thing was propaganda from the Saudis about how
much His Royal Highness was loved and he was upset again that somebody
in the US said something bad about him.

----------------------

Utter rubbish. there's a huge literature relating to Afghanistan and the
NWF.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

But in the United States, there was nothing as far as Middle East
Studies. Tons of Latin American Studies, which has pretty much died on
the vine. Still a lot of European Studies. But 30 years ago, outside
of possibly Harvard, nobody knew about it. Its not like in the UK
where you slogged through the Kyber Pass. Hell, Mandalay is probably a
musical instrument for all most Americans know.

We had a professor who was quoted as a national expert, his take was
to concrete over the Middle East as a solution. F%cking brilliant.
That pretty much was the state of what was taught on the Middle East
except if you were studying the language.

Over here, tea is something you toss in the harbor or get in bags.

At least now there is a fair amount of literature at least available
in the bookstores.

Whether anybody on the street in the Middle East thinks its anywhere
near truthful is another story.

The reverse guy was George Lenczowski, Polish officer served in the
Middle East in WWII, did academic work and worked for Aramco and the
United States as well the University of California. Only the accident
that he was in the Political Science department at Berkeley kept me
from getting a degree under him. Brilliant man and very useful to the
powers that be.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.ed...Lenczowski.htm

"Zombywoof" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:57:57 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Aug 17, 11:42 pm, tankfixer wrote:
In article ,
says...


Sure, most nuclear states use ships as a delivery method.



Cite? Name one.

The U.S. of A.

Idiot.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.