Help In Choosing A School For A Private Pilot's License

Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

(1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.

I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.

(2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.

(3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.

(4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
will call them back to talk to the right person.

(5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
back to see what they offer.

(6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.

It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
an hour each time.

So what should I do,
Christopher Lusardi

P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))

I instructed out of Boeing Field for 20 years and spent a lot of time at
Renton, so maybe I can help. No one can say which school is "best," because
the bottom line is the instructor-student relationship. It would be useful
to know whether you plan to go Part 141 (more structured) or Part 61 (more
free-form). Part 141 requires ground school; Part 61 could be resident
ground school, home study, whatever...no specific requirement. The end
result is the same. ..the certificate still says "Airplane - Single Engine
Land."

I don't know where you live, but of those listed, I would lean toward
Pro-Flight IF you find an instructor you click with. Proximity of Sea-Tac is
irrelevant...the Sea-Tac airspace will have an impact on your training
wherever you go. Becoming familiar with operations in and near Class B
airspace will give you a huge advantage over someone whose instructor shies
away from congested airspace.
Acuwings is new to me, but they have an impressive fleet according to their
website. If you can swing the finances, go there and train in the Cirrus.

Galvin's is the 800-pound gorilla. Probably the best of the bunch insofar as
quality is concerned. They have been in the flight training business since
before I got my private in 1962, and you don't survive in this business
unless you provide a superior product. Don't be put off by taxi
distances...that's a poor argument, and it would apply to Wings Aloft as
well.

Wings is a club, as you note, and that's a good thing. They have a lot of
club-type activities...fly-outs, seminars, dances, parties, etc for those
who are interested. Their planes are well-maintained and the whole operation
is polished. It's not Galvins, but then again Galvins is not a club.

You quote someone at Pro-Flight as saying a two-weekend ground school is
tough...try one weekend! Don't be fooled...the sole purpose of these "ground
schools" is to prepare you for the written exam, nothing more. Aviation
Seminars, a traveling road show, simply goes through the questions on the
exam (they are available to the public) and tells you why what they say is
the correct answer is correct...very little depth...and they do it in one
weekend. There are question-answer-explanation books that do the same thing
at your leisure. If you want to get more insight than that...and you
should...both ASA, Gleim, and the Kings have DVD courses. Maybe Pro-Flight
uses one of them. Go to The Aviator's Store on Boeing Field and look at what
is for sale.

PremAir is not for you...it is aircrew training.

The best advice that you got was from Acuwings....you have to have an
instructor with whom you can communicate. Everything else is secondary.

Bob Gardner
"Chris L" wrote in message
...
Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

(1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.

I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.

(2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.

(3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.

(4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
will call them back to talk to the right person.

(5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
back to see what they offer.

(6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.

It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
an hour each time.

So what should I do,
Christopher Lusardi

P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))

Try a intro lesson at each school you like, see what they do and how they
treat you. Do they talk over your head or down to you? Do you understand
what they are saying?

Is the private pilot your only goal, to fly for personal fun and perhaps
business transportation? Do you want to do aerobatics or learn to fly a
seaplane? Do you want to become an airline pilot and earn the "big bucks?"
[It isn't easy and the pay isn't great until you have a lot of experience.]

If you plan to get a commercial and go on to a career, pick Galvin, if you
just want to fly on nice days and take short trips, try AccuWings.

Find out how the instructors are paid, by the airplane hour, or by the
student hour? The airplane hour might sound cheaper since you only pay with
the engine running. But instructors have to eat and some have to feed a
family, so the engine will start before they start to teach, and that gets
expensive real fast and it isn't a good way to learn.

The kind of airplane, as long as it is well maintained, is not important,
the teaching ability and communications skills of the instructor and their
enthusiasm [which can make or break your enthusiasm] is most important.

Don't know your area, what I said is based on general principles and what
you and Bob said.


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
|I instructed out of Boeing Field for 20 years and spent a lot of time at
| Renton, so maybe I can help. No one can say which school is "best,"
because
| the bottom line is the instructor-student relationship. It would be useful
| to know whether you plan to go Part 141 (more structured) or Part 61 (more
| free-form). Part 141 requires ground school; Part 61 could be resident
| ground school, home study, whatever...no specific requirement. The end
| result is the same. ..the certificate still says "Airplane - Single Engine
| Land."
|
| I don't know where you live, but of those listed, I would lean toward
| Pro-Flight IF you find an instructor you click with. Proximity of Sea-Tac
is
| irrelevant...the Sea-Tac airspace will have an impact on your training
| wherever you go. Becoming familiar with operations in and near Class B
| airspace will give you a huge advantage over someone whose instructor
shies
| away from congested airspace.
| Acuwings is new to me, but they have an impressive fleet according to
their
| website. If you can swing the finances, go there and train in the Cirrus.
|
| Galvin's is the 800-pound gorilla. Probably the best of the bunch insofar
as
| quality is concerned. They have been in the flight training business since
| before I got my private in 1962, and you don't survive in this business
| unless you provide a superior product. Don't be put off by taxi
| distances...that's a poor argument, and it would apply to Wings Aloft as
| well.
|
| Wings is a club, as you note, and that's a good thing. They have a lot of
| club-type activities...fly-outs, seminars, dances, parties, etc for those
| who are interested. Their planes are well-maintained and the whole
operation
| is polished. It's not Galvins, but then again Galvins is not a club.
|
| You quote someone at Pro-Flight as saying a two-weekend ground school is
| tough...try one weekend! Don't be fooled...the sole purpose of these
"ground
| schools" is to prepare you for the written exam, nothing more. Aviation
| Seminars, a traveling road show, simply goes through the questions on the
| exam (they are available to the public) and tells you why what they say is
| the correct answer is correct...very little depth...and they do it in one
| weekend. There are question-answer-explanation books that do the same
thing
| at your leisure. If you want to get more insight than that...and you
| should...both ASA, Gleim, and the Kings have DVD courses. Maybe Pro-Flight
| uses one of them. Go to The Aviator's Store on Boeing Field and look at
what
| is for sale.
|
| PremAir is not for you...it is aircrew training.
|
| The best advice that you got was from Acuwings....you have to have an
| instructor with whom you can communicate. Everything else is secondary.
|
| Bob Gardner
| "Chris L" wrote in message
| ...
| Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
| getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
| the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
| to know which is the best all around school.
|
| (1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
| but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
| the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
| course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
| very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
| learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.
|
| I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
| Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
| FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
| Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
| said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.
|
| (2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
| busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.
|
| (3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
| customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
| in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
| there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.
|
| (4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
| will call them back to talk to the right person.
|
| (5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
| back to see what they offer.
|
| (6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.
|
| It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
| lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
| an hour each time.
|
| So what should I do,
| Christopher Lusardi
|
| P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
| to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))
|

Try a intro lesson at each school you like, see what they do and how they
treat you. Do they talk over your head or down to you? Do you understand
what they are saying?

If there are many flight schools, it may be worth while to try a second intro lesson, =after= you'd done the once around, with the same instructor at the first or second school you tried. It will give you an idea of how your (newly acquired) experience is playing into your evaluation of the various schools.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Chris L wrote:
Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

(1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.

I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.

(2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.

(3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.

(4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
will call them back to talk to the right person.

(5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
back to see what they offer.

(6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.

It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
an hour each time.

So what should I do,
Christopher Lusardi

P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))

I don't know the location and the specific schools in this discussion
but the general advice you have received from both Bob and Jim is
excellent and I wouldn't add anything to what they have already said
except to stress one factor they have covered; that being the most
important aspect of this equation involves the specific instructor you
choose after deciding on the venue.
I can't stress this strongly enough. The instructor you choose and what
you learn from that instructor will follow you into your tenure as a
pilot. If the instructor is poor, you can pass the test and will most
likely pick up on your own what it takes to be a good pilot in X amount
of time.
If the instructor is good, you will save all this "catching up" period
between the test and X and reaching X you will be leaps and bounds ahead
of where you would be had the CFI been bad.
Pick carefully. It's a VERY important decision!


--
Dudley Henriques

"Bob Gardner" writes:
If you want to get more insight than that...and you
should...both ASA, Gleim, and the Kings have DVD courses.

The King courses have "more insight"? Oh wow. Those travelling
courses must be really really shallow -- because when I went through
the King private pilot DVDs I was constantly frustrated by how little
explanation there was besides "the FAA wants you to know that..."

Chris

Chris L writes:
It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
an hour each time.

When I did my private I took more than an hour for a lesson. (I split
my training between KPAO in California and KBED outside Boston, both
near busy class B airports.) I found that I got the most out of a
lesson by budgeting:
- 1/2 hour for a preflight (without the instructor)
- 2 hours for flying (includes about 15 minutes of taxi, runup, and
waiting in line for the runway)
- 1/2 hour for post-flying debriefing by the instructor (here is
what you need to think about/learn for next time)

I didn't always use that entire time budget, but having planned on
spending all that time on flying kept me from worrying about the next
thing on my schedule when I was supposed to be learning. Also, the
preflight and taxi time are fixed costs (aka, you can't rush them
without cutting corners), and I find it is good to amortize them over
a longer lesson. If you find that your brain fills up quickly you may
want a shorter lesson, if you find you are still refreshed and ready
to learn more at the end you may want to schedule longer ones.

Chris

I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson plans,
concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and learning
the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
problem arises.
#2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."

So far your student has been doing the take-off and the landing at the end
of the flight, after being briefed and warmed up with slow flight, glides
and stalls.But after an hour of concentrated TO&L, confused and fixated on
the traffic pattern.
When the INSTRUCTOR comes back, the student doesn't want to practice the
mundane airwork, those crosswind landings are a challenge and fun. The fact
that the skill to really learn don't yet exist means the student feels
overwhelmed. But it is hard to go back to those rectangular patterns,
glides and turns, slow flight and pitch control exercises. So it is
important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is valuable to
fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training.

But you and your instructor are not married nor welded at the hip, if a
problem develops you can change and move on.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300

--
Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Happy Holidays
Bah Humbug
What Ever


--
The People think the Constitution protects their rights;
But the government sees it as an obstacle to be over-come.
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
| Chris L wrote:
| Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
| getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
| the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
| to know which is the best all around school.
|
| (1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
| but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
| the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
| course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
| very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
| learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.
|
| I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
| Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
| FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
| Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
| said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.
|
| (2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
| busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.
|
| (3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
| customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
| in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
| there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.
|
| (4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
| will call them back to talk to the right person.
|
| (5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
| back to see what they offer.
|
| (6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.
|
| It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
| lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
| an hour each time.
|
| So what should I do,
| Christopher Lusardi
|
| P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
| to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))
|
| I don't know the location and the specific schools in this discussion
| but the general advice you have received from both Bob and Jim is
| excellent and I wouldn't add anything to what they have already said
| except to stress one factor they have covered; that being the most
| important aspect of this equation involves the specific instructor you
| choose after deciding on the venue.
| I can't stress this strongly enough. The instructor you choose and what
| you learn from that instructor will follow you into your tenure as a
| pilot. If the instructor is poor, you can pass the test and will most
| likely pick up on your own what it takes to be a good pilot in X amount
| of time.
| If the instructor is good, you will save all this "catching up" period
| between the test and X and reaching X you will be leaps and bounds ahead
| of where you would be had the CFI been bad.
| Pick carefully. It's a VERY important decision!
|
|
| --
| Dudley Henriques

Jim Macklin wrote:
I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson plans,
concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and learning
the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
problem arises.
#2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."

So far your student has been doing the take-off and the landing at the end
of the flight, after being briefed and warmed up with slow flight, glides
and stalls.But after an hour of concentrated TO&L, confused and fixated on
the traffic pattern.
When the INSTRUCTOR comes back, the student doesn't want to practice the
mundane airwork, those crosswind landings are a challenge and fun. The fact
that the skill to really learn don't yet exist means the student feels
overwhelmed. But it is hard to go back to those rectangular patterns,
glides and turns, slow flight and pitch control exercises. So it is
important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is valuable to
fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training.

But you and your instructor are not married nor welded at the hip, if a
problem develops you can change and move on.


This is true and can indeed be a problem. The way we handled this was
that any instructor subbing for another one was charged with dealing
with this situation in a prescribed manner;
that being to review the student's log book and become familiar with the
last thing covered, then do the dual session based on where the OTHER
instructor was on the learning curve at that that time with THAT student
In other words, the subbing CFI did just that...sub for the other
instructor, gearing the time spent to where the subbing CFI felt the
OTHER instructor would be going with that lesson.
Our CFI's were told to use tact when in this situation. Any devience
from what the prime instructor had told the student was handled
carefully with the well being of the student in mind at all times.
Instructors who entered into "do it my way" or "my way is the right way"
contests with students didn't last long around me and the we did things.
Our instructors would take something a student was doing wrong in these
situations and guide the student through a correction if required in
technique without ever mentioning they were approaching the issue a bit
differently than another instructor on the staff.
This of course meant that we had all our CFI's in "tune" with the way we
did things so everybody got along, was totally competent, and most
importantly on the same page all the time .
--
Dudley Henriques

Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem.

I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or the material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways of doing things, and different things in a different order.

Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and I would not make the blanket statement that flying with another instructor who doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.