Fake military guys & the Stolen Valor Act of 2005

'War Stories' Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

Troy Brodrick spoke in schools about his 30-year military career in
which he earned three Purple Hearts and flew President Eisenhower as an
Air Force One pilot.

William Whitely, a former University of Oklahoma professor, told stories
of his career as a Navy SEAL while he served as a mentor to Naval ROTC
students who wanted to follow in his footsteps.

Trouble is, they were lying.

Smith, Brodrick and Whitely are among a growing nest of military
imposters, people who make up military careers or exaggerate their service.

Such lies might seem harmless, especially when legitimate veterans have
been known to tell aggrandized tales to make their service seem a bit
more exciting. But it's a source of frustration for those who truly
earned such accolades, and in many cases it's a violation of federal law.

Steve Robinson is the real deal. He was with SEAL Team One for most of
the 1970s. He's written a book about unmasking SEAL imposters and has
worked with several Web sites that verify public claims of military heroism.

The most common false claims are prisoner of war status and special
forces service, Robinson said. "Last year, 188 men graduated from SEAL
training, of 35,000 who joined the Navy," he said.

He said for every man on the front lines, there were several supporting
them in jobs like clerk, cook and truck driver.

"I have only met a couple of cooks and truck drivers from the Vietnam
War. Most were hunting Vietcong snipers in the elephant grass," he said,
referring to stories people tell.

Lies can be criminal

The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 makes it a federal crime to wear military
decorations and medals that weren't earned. Unauthorized manufacturing
or selling of such awards is also forbidden. Both can be punished by
prison time and fines, officials said.

Impersonating an officer and falsely claiming veteran status are also
crimes.

Mary Schantag is a researcher for the POW Network, a Web site that keeps
a database of known military imposters in an effort to discourage them
from spreading their false claims.

Schantag, whose husband is a disabled Marine veteran, said it's
difficult for the FBI and courts to track down and punish every offender.

"Claiming medals that haven't been earned is a crime, but these guys
know they can get away with it," Schantag said. "There isn't enough room
in the justice system."

Schantag said the veterans who volunteer their time to unmask military
pretenders don't go to federal authorities unless the case is serious.

"We don't turn in the guy down the street who is wearing the Purple
Heart at the parade," Schantag said. "But if he has a Medal of Honor
hanging on his wall, and he's leading the parade and talking at the
local school, we might go to the FBI."

'A wake of victims'

Robinson and Schantag agree the problem has gotten worse since Desert
Storm in the early 1990s, with another spike since 9/11.

In January 2002, Robinson said, he was asked to check on more than 1,100
claims made by men who claimed to be SEALs. Three were legitimate.

Robinson said the most common offenders are veterans who embellish their
service.

Schantag said that it's a shame those who tell such lies can't take
pride in what they truly accomplished.

"They really want to be the hero elite, and they forget that it takes
every member of the military to make a mission successful," Schantag
said. "It doesn't matter whether they are the clerk typing in orders or
the cook making meals or the guy on the front lines."

The ramifications of such exaggerations can go well beyond possible
criminal prosecution.

Schantag said she's seen marriages broken up, children who lost faith in
a parent and longtime friendships between veterans lost forever.

"What they are doing is devastating," Schantag said. "They think it's a
victimless crime, and it's not. They leave a wake of victims."

Robinson said that even if the lies do not reach the threshold of being
a crime, that they are always demeaning to those who truly sacrificed
for their country.

"It's a huge travesty for the real men who earned it," Robinson said.
"It's horribly frustrating."

© Copyright 2008 The Oklahoman. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

On Aug 21, 2:33*pm, Tiger wrote:
'War Stories' Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

frank wrote:
On Aug 21, 2:33 pm, Tiger wrote:

'War Stories' Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.


snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

The Mayor of Atlantic City Bob Levey got busted last year for claiming
to have been a Green beret in 'Nam.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:38:04 -0700 (PDT), frank
wrote:

On Aug 21, 2:33*pm, Tiger wrote:
'War Stories' Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

Fortunately my allegations of having spent my part of the Viet Nam war
typing discharges and reenlistments at Charleston AFB have gone
unquestioned. The glow on their faces when you handed them their
walking papers.

Casady

On Aug 21, 10:38 pm, frank wrote:
On Aug 21, 2:33 pm, Tiger wrote: 'War Stories' Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

Well, I have played that game. Guy in local store said I looked like a
vet, had I ever been in Vietnam? I said "yes" about six hours total,
coming and going. He thought that was true of many others without the
caveat.

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 10:38 pm, frank wrote:
On Aug 21, 2:33 pm, Tiger wrote: 'War Stories'
Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

Well, I have played that game. Guy in local store said I looked like a
vet, had I ever been in Vietnam? I said "yes" about six hours total,
coming and going. He thought that was true of many others without the
caveat.

As a Brit I have some real problems with all this.

Why does anyone care?

If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

Back in this thread someone mentioned that someone pretended to be a MoH
winner.

Surely something like that would be exploded in seconds, it's not as if
there are that many of them. Certainly, in the UK, a VC winner would be
someone of note in the local community and someone claiming to be one who
nobody knew about would be liable to be checked out reasonably quickly.

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Aug 22, 8:39�am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...





On Aug 21, 10:38 pm, frank wrote:
On Aug 21, 2:33 pm, Tiger wrote: 'War Stories'
Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

Well, I have played that game. Guy in local store said I looked like a
vet, had I ever been in Vietnam? I said "yes" about six hours total,
coming and going. He thought that was true of many others without the
caveat.

As a Brit I have some real problems with all this.

Why does anyone care?

If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, �and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

Back in this thread someone mentioned that someone pretended to be a MoH
winner.

Surely something like that would be exploded in seconds, �it's not as if
there are that many of them. �Certainly, �in the UK, �a VC winner would be
someone of note in the local community and someone claiming to be one who
nobody knew about would be liable to be checked out reasonably quickly.

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, �like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Most of it is pathetic overreaching, like the Major in "Separate
Tables", with a few outright mental cases. But someone in a prominant
local or greater position--teachers, officials, politicians--seems
pathological. It's so easy to check, you'd have to be nuts to try and
fake it, particularly with any kind of front line unit or valor
decoration.
OTOH, I'm always interested in seeing how Vulcans and neocons with
Viet Nam draft birthdates handled that character check.

"William Black" wrote in message
...
If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

Back in this thread someone mentioned that someone pretended to be a MoH
winner.

Surely something like that would be exploded in seconds, it's not as if there
are that many of them. Certainly, in the UK, a VC winner would be someone
of note in the local community and someone claiming to be one who nobody knew
about would be liable to be checked out reasonably quickly.

In the age if the Internet it is very easy for one to make the claim, and
even easier for the world to discover that the claim is false.


What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

That really depends on one's individual situation, but usually there is very
little actual advantage connected to it. Perhaps you would be a big man at your
local VFW club, but that doesn't put food on the table.

On the other hand, the education I received in the Navy has proven to be far
more valuable to me than anything I learned in college.



--
Vaughn


Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.


Will poofread for food.

QUOTE
"tomcervo" wrote in message
...
On Aug 22, 8:39?am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...





On Aug 21, 10:38 pm, frank wrote:
On Aug 21, 2:33 pm, Tiger wrote: 'War Stories'
Have Some Facing Prison
August 18, 2008
The Oklahoman

John Smith said he was a Navy SEAL who was imprisoned in Vietnam after
his helicopter was shot down.

snip

What I don't understand are the politicians who do this. Had a guy in
South Texas, said he had MOH. Put it in his brochures, was caught. Can
we say stupid? Got jail time, lost his city elected job.

Wife knew a guy who didn't make it through basic, got out for the good
of the service. Goes around saying he's a Vietnam vet, hangs with
them. guess he's good enough to pass, but one of these days he's going
to get caught.

What burns me are all the ads in the local papers, wanting to buy
medals, decorations. I'm sure there are enough people who sell them.
But, jeez. Give them to the vet's high school for a wall of honor,
call the VFW or the Legion, contact the local historical society, but
sell them?

Is it just me, or am I too sensitive over this?

Well, I have played that game. Guy in local store said I looked like a
vet, had I ever been in Vietnam? I said "yes" about six hours total,
coming and going. He thought that was true of many others without the
caveat.

As a Brit I have some real problems with all this.

Why does anyone care?

If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, ?and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

Back in this thread someone mentioned that someone pretended to be a MoH
winner.

Surely something like that would be exploded in seconds, ?it's not as if
there are that many of them. ?Certainly, ?in the UK, ?a VC winner would be
someone of note in the local community and someone claiming to be one who
nobody knew about would be liable to be checked out reasonably quickly.

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?


Most of it is pathetic overreaching, like the Major in "Separate
Tables", with a few outright mental cases. But someone in a prominant
local or greater position--teachers, officials, politicians--seems
pathological. It's so easy to check, you'd have to be nuts to try and
fake it, particularly with any kind of front line unit or valor
decoration.
OTOH, I'm always interested in seeing how Vulcans and neocons with
Viet Nam draft birthdates handled that character check.
UNQUOTE

The main reason it is so hard to claim to have earned some medal you haven't
is because of the gazetting of awards: any claim is easily verfiable. My
experience with such caddish behaviour in the U.K. and Commonwealth is that it
usually a claim of service in something like the SAS, SASR or JTF2, all of
which are very taciturn when it comes to confirming or even denying someone's
membership.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

"William Black" wrote:

s a Brit I have some real problems with all this.

Why does anyone care?

If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

When it comes to Vietnam vets, there are certain advantages to
maintaining the fiction that most of them were jungle rotted victims
of PTSD sprayed with Agent Orange on daily basis and twice on Sundays.

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

In the current enviroment of near worship for the service member and
the veteran one accrues at least of modicum of social respect and
status by being a service member or veteran.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL