Why are commuter flights so expensive?

Supply and demand.
Low supply, low demand, high cost.
Michelle

Jay Honeck wrote:

Here's a mystery that I just cannot answer:

To fly to Las Vegas from Chicago costs $99.00. (For example.)

To fly to Cedar Rapids from Chicago costs $300.

Naturally, at that price practically no one flies on that plane into Cedar
Rapids.

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say, 30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full? This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Their actions seem to defy logic. In the lodging industry, you're going to
find rooms are discounted much more aggressively after 10 PM than they are
at 3 PM, simply because no innkeeper wants to sit empty, and the odds of
being able to charge full-rate at that time of day are slim. Yet no airline
seems to do it this way, at least on the short hops.

If it were MY airline, I'd sure as hell rather make a hundred bucks than
nothing!

There must be something else in play here -- anyone know?



--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on
flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense,
say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made
plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of
price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant
because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and
thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six months
from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to
Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so
the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very
simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2)
they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing
it.

-cwk.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel
and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will
pay
for you flight to come and gamble.




Wonder if I can place that 3-5k on my CREDIT CARD???? ducking


---
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"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on
flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made
plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six months
from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to
Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very
simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2) they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing
it.

-cwk.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will pay
for you flight to come and gamble.

"Chuck" wrote in message
. com...

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on
flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense,
say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was
full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand
matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you
live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made
plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of
price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant
because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and
thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six
months
from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to
Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to
your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so
the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very
simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals
in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this
is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2)
they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and
wing
it.

-cwk.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel
and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket
at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will
pay
for you flight to come and gamble.




Wonder if I can place that 3-5k on my CREDIT CARD???? ducking


Chuck, Yes that is how I did it but make sure you look at the interest rate
for your cash advance it can be worse than the wife? Use a debit card so you
get no interest.

Jay: Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall from my tourism industry
days-Hotel people work on Average Daily Rate. Some people walk in the
door and pay your Rack Rate, some pay Corporate Rate, some have a AAA card
discount, some have Government Rate. And it all averages out to your
Average Daily Rate. In the Airline biz they have Revenue Per Seat Mile.
Some pay First Class, some are coach, a few got a package, some purchased
through a consolidator, and some bought the ticket on Priceline. The bean
counters in Chicago, Minneapolis, Dallas, and Atlanta crunch the numbers
and voila!
- - -
Al Gilson
Skyhawk N3082U
KSFF Spokane, WA



In article fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Here's a mystery that I just cannot answer:

To fly to Las Vegas from Chicago costs $99.00. (For example.)

To fly to Cedar Rapids from Chicago costs $300.

Naturally, at that price practically no one flies on that plane into Cedar
Rapids.

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say, 30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full? This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Their actions seem to defy logic. In the lodging industry, you're going to
find rooms are discounted much more aggressively after 10 PM than they are
at 3 PM, simply because no innkeeper wants to sit empty, and the odds of
being able to charge full-rate at that time of day are slim. Yet no airline
seems to do it this way, at least on the short hops.

If it were MY airline, I'd sure as hell rather make a hundred bucks than
nothing!

There must be something else in play here -- anyone know?

--
Al Gilson
Spokane, WA USA
1970 VW Convertible
1964 Cessna Skyhawk

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel
and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will
pay
for you flight to come and gamble.

Free!! what a shmuck!

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:15:58 GMT, C Kingsbury wrote:

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2) they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing it.

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

be aware that Europe is still splitted in many nations and is not the size
of the USA, so things work a little (*doh*) bit different here.

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40% cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

#m
--
The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free,
neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits.
Thomas Jefferson

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

Consumers in general. I don't think the disparity is enormous and in any
case there's no question that a European with a decent job can enjoy a very
nice quality of life. Also, assuming that an American family and European
one would both budget say $2000 for a vacation, the European family will
likely be trying to spread it across a longer trip. In the US the typical
vacation trip is a week, occasionally ten days, once in a while two weeks.
And that's pretty much it for the year. When I worked for Bertelsmann my
German comrades would typically take three or four weeks off in the summer,
and two or three in the winter. Likewise when I was in Thailand a few years
back, most of the Europeans I ran into were there for at least a month. So
you guys need to stretch your money a little further even if salaries were
identical, which they are not.

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40%
cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite welcome.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

Consumers in general. I don't think the disparity is enormous and in any
case there's no question that a European with a decent job can enjoy a
very
nice quality of life. Also, assuming that an American family and European
one would both budget say $2000 for a vacation, the European family will
likely be trying to spread it across a longer trip. In the US the typical
vacation trip is a week, occasionally ten days, once in a while two weeks.
And that's pretty much it for the year. When I worked for Bertelsmann my
German comrades would typically take three or four weeks off in the
summer,
and two or three in the winter. Likewise when I was in Thailand a few
years
back, most of the Europeans I ran into were there for at least a month. So
you guys need to stretch your money a little further even if salaries were
identical, which they are not.

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40%
cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite
welcome.

providing those working in the bars and restaurants earn it.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:01:03 -0000, Chris wrote:

So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite
welcome.

providing those working in the bars and restaurants earn it.

they have to travel there (to the US) in the first place.

#m
--
The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free,
neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits.
Thomas Jefferson