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Wake Turbulence behind an A-380



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 23rd 05, 04:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380


[...]
Airbus should include color smoke generators off each wingtip to colorize
the vortices and give VFR aircraft something visually to avoid.


Different color smoke from each wingtip would be very pretty.


But imagine the mass of smoke agent that would have to be dispensed in
order for it to be visible 5-10 miles behind the jet. There would be
a terrific amount of dilution through the air, moving at that kind of
speed.

- FChE
  #12  
Old November 23rd 05, 05:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380

I shouldn't be cheering just yet if I were you...

Who was cheering?

I think the A-380 is very cool!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #13  
Old November 23rd 05, 07:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380

How about port side red smoke, starboard side green? Still smoke will
not show well. No point on night landings, just maintain increased
separation.

How about a ground based LIDAR to measure turbulence and/or windshear?
Then the localized air turbulence could be displayed in some of the
runway marker lights. Blink some of the lights in a pattern to indicate
the location of the turbulence or windshear or shifting
headwind/tailwind. The idea is some method of telling the pilots where
to watch out for turbulence of all kinds. There have been studies to
develop a LIDAR system on aircraft to watch for turbulence ahead. A
system on aircraft adds to the operating cost but is always available
to each plane so equiped. A system on the field would be available to
all planes but localized. On approach the pilot would have an idea of
how bad is the turbulence and whether or not to make a go-around. This
would only help on the field not on the approach or anywhere else. A
simple system would be a marker pattern that only indicates that there
is turbulence anywhere in the approach pattern but not any information
of specific location. This may be enough.

James

  #14  
Old November 23rd 05, 09:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Matt,


I missed that part. Shame on Airbus then. Either they really believed
this and are thus stupid, or they were outright being deceptive.



BS! I strongly suggest you read that report again. Nowhere does it say the
wake turbulence measurements have been completed and/or published. These
are "tentative" and "over-cautious" preliminary/interim standards issued
by ICAO as a suggestion. No one knows what wake turbulunce is causes - and
we will know before final ruling.

The problem is: The A380 is flying around as we speak, so ATC has to have
some guidance right now. That's what this does. It says NOTHING about the
actual wake turbulence caused.

But, anything for some cheap shots at Airbus, right?


Well, if you are right, and I doubt it, that Airbus has no data on wake
turbulence either from CFD or wind tunnel tests, they they should not
have given ANY guidance to their customers about what it would be until
they did have some data.

Then again, you'll say anything if it takes a cheap shot at me.

Matt
  #15  
Old November 24th 05, 07:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380


"Frank Ch. Eigler" wrote

But imagine the mass of smoke agent that would have to be dispensed in
order for it to be visible 5-10 miles behind the jet. There would be
a terrific amount of dilution through the air, moving at that kind of
speed.


Not to disagree with the fact that putting smoke systems on heavies would be
a bad idea, but I do wonder about how much smoke would have to be used.

I remember a few years ago at OSH, there was an older jet trainer (don't
remember which type) that had smoke generators carefully place on the
wingtips. The trail was tight, and spun fiercely for a very long time. ( 2
or more minutes?) I was fascinated.

Anyone else remember the details?
--
Jim in NC

  #17  
Old November 24th 05, 05:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

"Frank Ch. Eigler" wrote

But imagine the mass of smoke agent that would have to be dispensed in
order for it to be visible 5-10 miles behind the jet. There would be
a terrific amount of dilution through the air, moving at that kind of
speed.


Not to disagree with the fact that putting smoke systems on heavies would be
a bad idea, but I do wonder about how much smoke would have to be used.

I remember a few years ago at OSH, there was an older jet trainer (don't
remember which type) that had smoke generators carefully place on the
wingtips. The trail was tight, and spun fiercely for a very long time. ( 2
or more minutes?) I was fascinated.


That's actually what keeps the plane in the air.

See http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/airfoils...ation-vortices

rg
  #18  
Old November 25th 05, 05:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380


"Ron Garret" wrote

That's actually what keeps the plane in the air.


Very incompletely, and incorrectly stated.
--
Jim in NC
  #19  
Old November 25th 05, 06:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380


"Morgans" wrote in message news:hschf.50

.....had smoke generators carefully place on the
wingtips. The trail was tight, and spun fiercely for a very long time.
( 2
or more minutes?) I was fascinated.

Anyone else remember the details?


Not that, but many times over the years I've crossed paths or trailed with
other a/c at a cruise altitude that generated contrails. Never saw the
other a/c, but could see their contrail still rotating as we passed. A
wingtip vortex starts out tighter, so may well last longer.


  #20  
Old November 26th 05, 01:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Wake Turbulence behind an A-380

In article
outaviation.com,
"Skylune" wrote:

by "Matt Barrow" Nov 22, 2005 at 11:30 PM


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

Airliners may have to fly twice the normal distance behind the new
Airbus A380 superjumbo jet to avoid potential hazards from its
unusually powerful wake, according to preliminary safety guidelines.

snip

Airbus should include color smoke generators off each wingtip to

colorize
the vortices and give VFR aircraft something visually to avoid.


Different color smoke from each wingtip would be very pretty.

That would be cool, just like the stunt pilots' planes. Those jets would
look very cool doing hammerheads and loops to entertain the passengers and
crowds below.


Who needs smoke when Mother Nature provides miles and miles (kilometers
and kilometers) of stratus clouds.
 




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