Obtaining Flight Instructor Certificate

To obtain a flight instuctor certificate is it mandtory you have a
commercial certificate with instument privlages even if you will only be a
CFI teaching VFR only? or does the FAA require it regardless the wording in
part 61.183 was alittle unclear to me. Anyone who can clarify please do
thanks so much!

-Chris

On 2003-11-28 17:46:59 -0800, "Chris" said:

To obtain a flight instuctor certificate is it mandtory you have a
commercial certificate with instument privlages even if you will only be a
CFI teaching VFR only?

For a flight instructor certificate with an airplane rating, you must have a commercial certificate with an instrument rating. If you're going for a helicopter CFI, you don't need the instrument rating.

"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
news:2003112817560816807%larry@larryandjennynet...
For a flight instructor certificate with an airplane rating, you must have
a commercial certificate with an instrument rating. If you're going for a
helicopter CFI, you don't need the instrument rating.

I have to admit, I understand why Chris could not parse 61.183(c)(2). It
says a person needs "an instrument rating, OR privileges on that person's
pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating
sought".

If you're not trying to get qualified to instruct instrument flight, why
would you need an instrument rating, assuming you had all the other
necessary privileges on your pilot certificate? What does "privileges on
that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight
instructor rating sought" actually mean?

I'd never actually looked at this particular line that closely, and had
always assumed you are required to have an instrument rating to get a flight
instructor certificate. But now I don't see how the regulation specifically
says this (though I admit, the regulation is worded so oddly, I'm not really
sure what it DOES say ). The Part 61 FAQ seems to say that you DO need
an instrument rating, but does not clarify what the reasoning behind that
conclusion is. They seem to think the regulation is clear as written.

Pete

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the "OR" in that regulation is
alittle wordy.

-Chris



"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
news:2003112817560816807%larry@larryandjennynet...
For a flight instructor certificate with an airplane rating, you must
have
a commercial certificate with an instrument rating. If you're going for a
helicopter CFI, you don't need the instrument rating.

I have to admit, I understand why Chris could not parse 61.183(c)(2). It
says a person needs "an instrument rating, OR privileges on that person's
pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating
sought".

If you're not trying to get qualified to instruct instrument flight, why
would you need an instrument rating, assuming you had all the other
necessary privileges on your pilot certificate? What does "privileges on
that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight
instructor rating sought" actually mean?

I'd never actually looked at this particular line that closely, and had
always assumed you are required to have an instrument rating to get a
flight
instructor certificate. But now I don't see how the regulation
specifically
says this (though I admit, the regulation is worded so oddly, I'm not
really
sure what it DOES say ). The Part 61 FAQ seems to say that you DO need
an instrument rating, but does not clarify what the reasoning behind that
conclusion is. They seem to think the regulation is clear as written.

Pete

The wording of the FAR is indeed confusing. However, the PTS for
flight instructor (airplane) clearly states that a
commercial/instrument or ATP is a prerequisite for the checkride. I
know that the PTS is not regulatory, but if you don't satisfy the PTS
requirements you won't pass the checkride regardless of what you think
the FAR says.

Also, I believe that only an airplane or airship instructor rating
requires an instrument rating. In that context, the wording "OR
privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to
the flight instructor rating sought" starts to make some sense.


"Chris" wrote in message ...
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the "OR" in that regulation is
alittle wordy.

-Chris



"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
news:2003112817560816807%larry@larryandjennynet...
For a flight instructor certificate with an airplane rating, you must
have
a commercial certificate with an instrument rating. If you're going for a
helicopter CFI, you don't need the instrument rating.

I have to admit, I understand why Chris could not parse 61.183(c)(2). It
says a person needs "an instrument rating, OR privileges on that person's
pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating
sought".

If you're not trying to get qualified to instruct instrument flight, why
would you need an instrument rating, assuming you had all the other
necessary privileges on your pilot certificate? What does "privileges on
that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight
instructor rating sought" actually mean?

I'd never actually looked at this particular line that closely, and had
always assumed you are required to have an instrument rating to get a
flight
instructor certificate. But now I don't see how the regulation
specifically
says this (though I admit, the regulation is worded so oddly, I'm not
really
sure what it DOES say ). The Part 61 FAQ seems to say that you DO need
an instrument rating, but does not clarify what the reasoning behind that
conclusion is. They seem to think the regulation is clear as written.

Pete

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
om...
Also, I believe that only an airplane or airship instructor rating
requires an instrument rating. In that context, the wording "OR
privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to
the flight instructor rating sought" starts to make some sense.

Since the clause containing the "or" applies only to ratings for which an
instrument rating is required, I don't follow your logic there. I just
don't see why the regulation is written that way. It could be MUCH clearer,
and your suggestion doesn't cause it "to make some sense" in my opinion.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote

I have to admit, I understand why Chris could not parse
61.183(c)(2). It says a person needs "an instrument rating, OR
privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are
appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought".

I am a Flight Instructor-Airplane, but I do not have an Instrument
Rating on my pilot certificate per the following:


Section 61.167: Privileges.
(a) A person who holds an airline transport pilot certificate is
entitled to the same privileges as those afforded a person who holds
a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating.


Bob Moore

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 8...
I am a Flight Instructor-Airplane, but I do not have an Instrument
Rating on my pilot certificate per the following:

I do understand the implication of holding an ATP certificate, thank you.
That's not the point. The regulation says "that are appropriate to the
flight instructor rating sought" but does not define what that means.

If they mean "that are equivalent to an instrument rating", why not just say
that? It's specific, to the point, and most importantly, unambiguous,
unlike the current regulation.

Pete

An IR isn't required for the ATP?

mike regish

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 8...
"Peter Duniho" wrote

I have to admit, I understand why Chris could not parse
61.183(c)(2). It says a person needs "an instrument rating, OR
privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are
appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought".

I am a Flight Instructor-Airplane, but I do not have an Instrument
Rating on my pilot certificate per the following:


Section 61.167: Privileges.
(a) A person who holds an airline transport pilot certificate is
entitled to the same privileges as those afforded a person who holds
a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating.


Bob Moore

"mike regish" wrote in
news:2l7yb.158250$Dw6.630001@attbi_s02:

An IR isn't required for the ATP?

Instrument is included in the ATP unless the ATP certificate
is restricted to "VFR Only". As I recall, some years back,
there were some Part 121 helicopter operations that required
an ATP certificate but were flown in helicopters that were not
IFR equiped.

Bob