If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
"Jay Beckman" wrote in
news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01: What do you find superior about green instead of red light? Using red light means LCD displays don't show up well. IFR charts, which are blue, don't show up very well. Sometimes I need to see a VFR chart for something, and all the magenta washes out completely. The human eye is much more sensitive tou green light than red light. That's one reason all night vision devices use green. The military uses green for all night cockpit lights. I notice that it takes much less light to be able to see almost anything using green light. Red is just traditional, from the time when little actual research had been done, and the availability of light with narrow wavelengths was unknown. Red was easy to do, and had some small effect in reducing the loss of night vision. Now it's possible to buy LEDs with a very narrow band of wavelengths, and they don't affect your vision in other wavelengths. White, OTOH, is a broadband mix of wavelengths and will affect your night vision across the spectrum. I need to preserve my night vision to some extent, because I'm not always landing to a brightly lit runway. I land to helipads that have lights, but may not be very well lit, and I need to be able to find platforms in the middle of the ocean. If you're flying airplanes between IFR runways, then white light probably won't hurt much. I prefer narrow-band sources, and red is the least effective of all the colors. -- Regards, Stan |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
... This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using black-and-white charts. Mea Culpa.. I didn't take this into consideration, sorry. I read most of the aviation newsgroups in order to pick up as much info as possible and I sometimes forget their specifc focus. The usual argument against red light is that it washes out detail on sectionals. The AIM does not give a glowing endorsement of red lighting and emphasizes the need for white light. Green is a nice alternative. I never used red light in all my years of flying IFR, but that is just a personal peccadillo. I found that turning white cockpit and instrument lighting down to an irreducible minimum worked well for me. I also used diffused white light to illuminate approach plates. I haven't done much night flying since my required night training but I agree with how you do it. I found myself only reaching for a point light source when I needed to double check something in the A/FD. I note that the chemical light sticks designed for emergency use glow green, but that might just be a question of available chemicals. IIRC, I've seen them in different colors...but mostly the bright green. Googling "night vision _ green" gets a lot of hits that refer to night vision goggles. I hope and pray that none of our newsgroupie friends are using NVGs. That appears to have driven the military to go to green instead of red. Bob Thanks Bob... In the future, I'll try to be more aware of which group I'm in before I wade in. Regards, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
... "Jay Beckman" wrote in news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01: What do you find superior about green instead of red light? Using red light means LCD displays don't show up well. IFR charts, which are blue, don't show up very well. Sometimes I need to see a VFR chart for something, and all the magenta washes out completely. The human eye is much more sensitive tou green light than red light. That's one reason all night vision devices use green. The military uses green for all night cockpit lights. I notice that it takes much less light to be able to see almost anything using green light. Red is just traditional, from the time when little actual research had been done, and the availability of light with narrow wavelengths was unknown. Red was easy to do, and had some small effect in reducing the loss of night vision. Now it's possible to buy LEDs with a very narrow band of wavelengths, and they don't affect your vision in other wavelengths. White, OTOH, is a broadband mix of wavelengths and will affect your night vision across the spectrum. I need to preserve my night vision to some extent, because I'm not always landing to a brightly lit runway. I land to helipads that have lights, but may not be very well lit, and I need to be able to find platforms in the middle of the ocean. If you're flying airplanes between IFR runways, then white light probably won't hurt much. I prefer narrow-band sources, and red is the least effective of all the colors. -- Regards, Stan Stan, Thanks very much. Interesting stuff about helo flying. Jay B |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Jay Beckman" wrote in
news:gS1yd.12219$ry.11166@fed1read01: "Bob Gardner" wrote in message ... This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using black-and-white charts. Bad assumption. Jepp IFR charts aren't black and white, and many of us use Jepps. In the future, I'll try to be more aware of which group I'm in before I wade in. Don't worry about it. There are many threads much further off topic than this. Anyone who doesn't have VFR charts along on an IFR flight is negligent, IMO. Sometimes you need more information than is shown on IFR charts, and lighting applies to all phases of flight. -- Regards, Stan |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Not a biggie...I wasn't taking you to task for where you posted, just noting
that sectionals do not play a big part in IFR flying...although they should always be available. Since I never used red or green, the colors on Jepp low altitude charts didn't affect me. The important info is in blue anyway. Gotta look up some of those wild chemical stick colors for New Year's Eve!!! Bob "Jay Beckman" wrote in message news:gS1yd.12219$ry.11166@fed1read01... "Bob Gardner" wrote in message ... This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using black-and-white charts. Mea Culpa.. I didn't take this into consideration, sorry. I read most of the aviation newsgroups in order to pick up as much info as possible and I sometimes forget their specifc focus. The usual argument against red light is that it washes out detail on sectionals. The AIM does not give a glowing endorsement of red lighting and emphasizes the need for white light. Green is a nice alternative. I never used red light in all my years of flying IFR, but that is just a personal peccadillo. I found that turning white cockpit and instrument lighting down to an irreducible minimum worked well for me. I also used diffused white light to illuminate approach plates. I haven't done much night flying since my required night training but I agree with how you do it. I found myself only reaching for a point light source when I needed to double check something in the A/FD. I note that the chemical light sticks designed for emergency use glow green, but that might just be a question of available chemicals. IIRC, I've seen them in different colors...but mostly the bright green. Googling "night vision _ green" gets a lot of hits that refer to night vision goggles. I hope and pray that none of our newsgroupie friends are using NVGs. That appears to have driven the military to go to green instead of red. Bob Thanks Bob... In the future, I'll try to be more aware of which group I'm in before I wade in. Regards, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message ... "Jay Beckman" wrote in news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01: What do you find superior about green instead of red light? some stuff snipped The human eye is much more sensitive tou green light than red light. I need to preserve my night vision to some extent, because I'm not always landing to a brightly lit runway. I prefer narrow-band sources, and red is the least effective of all the colors. There are two issues here, and Stan (the other Stan) has touched on both. One is simply vision within the cockpit, and for this, any color of light will do, except that the color should not compromise readability of instruments and charts. Red is not the best choice for this. The other issue is vision outside the cockpit, which is still very important for IFR flight, as Stan pointed out. Light color and intensity should be chosen to allow good in-cockpit visibility without compromising outside visibility. The physiological basis for night vision (dark-adapted, or scotopic vision) is primarily the characteristics of the retinal photoreceptors called rods. These are indeed more sensitive to shorter wavelengths, and, at low illumination levels, less light intensity should be required if a green light is used. But true dark adaption is based on the presence of a light-sensitive pigment in the rods called rhodopsin. This pigment is naturally synthesized in the rods but is destroyed by light. Dark adaption is the process of allowing the concentration of rhodopsin to increase by not allowing its destruction by light. It takes 45 minutes or so for it to reach maximum levels, but can be destroyed by a few seconds of exposure to higher light levels. Red light does not have the destructive power on rhodopsin that shorter wavelengths have, and that is why red light has long been favored when maximum preservation of night vision is required. Blue and green will have a stronger destructive effect. The cones also become somewhat dark-adapted using other pigments, and they respond much more quickly, like 5-7 minutes. However, a balance must be struck. I think that most of our aviation vision occurs in the so-called mesopic region, in which both rods and cones contribute significantly. Dim white light or light of other colors will allow good readability of instruments and charts while allowing reasonable dark adaptation. The main thing is to avoid bright light. My own experience is that red works well for me except on sectionals. Some of the red lamps I use are a little brighter than I would like but I don't find that they mess up my adaption even when falling directly on my face briefly. White light does mess me up unless it is very dim. I haven't used other colors. I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at sectionals when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so bright. One good reference is "Night Vision In Military Aviation", by the USAF School of Aerospace Medicine: http://www.brooks.af.mil/web/af/cour...tures/UNV7.doc Stan |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at sectionals when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so bright. The Photon III has low/medium/high settings as well as some useless flash modes. The mode is kind of a pain to change, but once set it stays on that mode. Try one of these set at medium or low intensity. Also, with the "covert" snout your eyes are shielded from directly viewing any of the emitted light. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
"Mitty" wrote in message ... I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at sectionals when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so bright. The Photon III has low/medium/high settings as well as some useless flash modes. The mode is kind of a pain to change, but once set it stays on that mode. Try one of these set at medium or low intensity. Also, with the "covert" snout your eyes are shielded from directly viewing any of the emitted light. I haven't tried one of those, sounds useful. It must have the same controller as the Photon Fusion headlamp, with all the hard-to-change modes and useless flashing modes. But once you get it into the right mode, it's great. Stan |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
"Stan Prevost" wrote in
: My own experience is that red works well for me except on sectionals. Some of the red lamps I use are a little brighter than I would like but I don't find that they mess up my adaption even when falling directly on my face briefly. White light does mess me up unless it is very dim. I haven't used other colors. I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at sectionals when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so bright. One problem for me with red light is that I have about a dozen gauges with red lines and red areas. Red light doesn't help much in seeing these. If the instrument lights fail and I have to rely on my own light, red ain't gonna cut it, because there is likely to be lots of stuff going on, and I need to know if I'm approaching limits on the engines, RPM, torque, oil temps and pressures, hydraulic systems, and everything else. I need to be able to see at a glance where the needles are in relation to the redlines. If red is adequate in your aircraft, then use whatever works for you. I've tried red, and don't like it. -- Regards, Stan |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message ... One problem for me with red light is that I have about a dozen gauges with red lines and red areas. Red light doesn't help much in seeing these. If the instrument lights fail and I have to rely on my own light, red ain't gonna cut it, because there is likely to be lots of stuff going on, and I need to know if I'm approaching limits on the engines, RPM, torque, oil temps and pressures, hydraulic systems, and everything else. I need to be able to see at a glance where the needles are in relation to the redlines. If red is adequate in your aircraft, then use whatever works for you. I've tried red, and don't like it. Those are very good reasons for not using red in your aircraft. That has not been a problem in the ones I fly. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Backup plates on PDA | Stan Prevost | Instrument Flight Rules | 29 | December 10th 04 02:42 AM |
Cockpit Lighting Controller | Richard | Home Built | 0 | April 8th 04 07:12 AM |
Panel lighting | Corky Scott | Home Built | 5 | March 6th 04 12:22 AM |
Good AI backup, wish me luck | Robert M. Gary | Instrument Flight Rules | 29 | March 1st 04 05:36 PM |
Solid State Backup AI | Dan Truesdell | Instrument Flight Rules | 20 | January 15th 04 09:53 PM |