Multiengine Rating

On Jan 14, 10:00 am, wrote:
Hi,

i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land), VFR-add-on to my
PP-ASEL.
Any comments about the best training aircraft for these purpose ?
(PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond DA42, ..)

There are big differences concerning the rating requirements.
Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6 hours, other 25 hours
for the rating.

Why it is so ?

Mike

Hey Mike, my $0.02-

I learned in a Seminole, and now I am transitioning into a DA42. Both
are fairly easy to fly. The Seminole has counter rotating engines
which make the critical engine not a factor. The one I trained in has
steam gauges. The DA42 is a G1000 plane, and FADEC controlled.

Are you familiar with the G1000? It will take you a while to get used
to the display and setting up the GPS, finding pages, etc. You can get
a free simulator from Garmin to work through this, but be aware it will
take a little while. (If equipped the Avidyne in the Seminole will need
some transition time as well).

The DA42 is really nice to fly. Decent power, nice handling
characteristics while flying, and during single engine operations. The
44' wingspan takes a bit getting used to (the winglets sit over 7' in
the air, so it requires careful taxiing).

A little info on both:

Seminole:
-Will teach you about controlling constant speed engines with standard
controls (mix, prop, throttles, and manual feathering)
-Cowl Flaps, and proper cooling needs
-Burns around 20 GPH.
-Counter rotating engines means that Vmc is lower
-You can shut engines off during training and fully secure them w/o
damaging the engine--
-Janitrol heater and associated controls/limitations- (quick heat!)
-Stall characteristics are pretty benign

Twin Star:
-A bit faster (~165 to 170kts cruise)
-G1000
-FADEC-- not as much to master, engine shutdown, feathering is just the
flip of a switch

-A lot of failures will need to be simulated but not physically done,
for example, you can not shutdown engine using full shutoff during
training (as it will damage the fuel pump).
-Burns around 10GPH (Jet A)
-Has a critical engine
-Stall characteristics are pretty benign
-can extend the gear at any speed up to Vne
-Anti ice capability along with oxygen
-newer models have the Garmin autopilot with flight director
-About 50 different abnormal conditions that require the use of special
checklists (not critical problems, but need checklists to resolve)
-Full electrical system failure will eventually lead to engine shutdown
-Quieter than the Seminole (from the inside)
-simple run up
-needs continual crosswind correction during landing (those winglets
work like sails as well)
-takes a while to get heat in the cabin

Len
CPS/MEL IA
KBFI

All airplanes need continual crosswind correction, any time
there is a crosswind.



" wrote
in message
oups.com...
|
|
| On Jan 14, 10:00 am, wrote:
| Hi,
|
| i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land),
VFR-add-on to my
| PP-ASEL.
| Any comments about the best training aircraft for these
purpose ?
| (PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond
DA42, ..)
|
| There are big differences concerning the rating
requirements.
| Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6 hours,
other 25 hours
| for the rating.
|
| Why it is so ?
|
| Mike
|
| Hey Mike, my $0.02-
|
| I learned in a Seminole, and now I am transitioning into a
DA42. Both
| are fairly easy to fly. The Seminole has counter rotating
engines
| which make the critical engine not a factor. The one I
trained in has
| steam gauges. The DA42 is a G1000 plane, and FADEC
controlled.
|
| Are you familiar with the G1000? It will take you a while
to get used
| to the display and setting up the GPS, finding pages, etc.
You can get
| a free simulator from Garmin to work through this, but be
aware it will
| take a little while. (If equipped the Avidyne in the
Seminole will need
| some transition time as well).
|
| The DA42 is really nice to fly. Decent power, nice
handling
| characteristics while flying, and during single engine
operations. The
| 44' wingspan takes a bit getting used to (the winglets sit
over 7' in
| the air, so it requires careful taxiing).
|
| A little info on both:
|
| Seminole:
| -Will teach you about controlling constant speed engines
with standard
| controls (mix, prop, throttles, and manual feathering)
| -Cowl Flaps, and proper cooling needs
| -Burns around 20 GPH.
| -Counter rotating engines means that Vmc is lower
| -You can shut engines off during training and fully secure
them w/o
| damaging the engine--
| -Janitrol heater and associated controls/limitations-
(quick heat!)
| -Stall characteristics are pretty benign
|
| Twin Star:
| -A bit faster (~165 to 170kts cruise)
| -G1000
| -FADEC-- not as much to master, engine shutdown,
feathering is just the
| flip of a switch
|
| -A lot of failures will need to be simulated but not
physically done,
| for example, you can not shutdown engine using full
shutoff during
| training (as it will damage the fuel pump).
| -Burns around 10GPH (Jet A)
| -Has a critical engine
| -Stall characteristics are pretty benign
| -can extend the gear at any speed up to Vne
| -Anti ice capability along with oxygen
| -newer models have the Garmin autopilot with flight
director
| -About 50 different abnormal conditions that require the
use of special
| checklists (not critical problems, but need checklists to
resolve)
| -Full electrical system failure will eventually lead to
engine shutdown
| -Quieter than the Seminole (from the inside)
| -simple run up
| -needs continual crosswind correction during landing
(those winglets
| work like sails as well)
| -takes a while to get heat in the cabin
|
| Len
| CPS/MEL IA
| KBFI
|

Yes, you are correct. What I should have stated is that the Twinstar is
more sensitive to it than the seminole. I find I've needed to put in
more correction and need to keep it in longer on the landing roll than
the seminole.

The seminole is more tolerant of taking out the crosswind correction in
the beginning part of the landing roll, whereas the twinstar needs to
have it kept in till you are just about stopped.

Len




Jim Macklin wrote:
All airplanes need continual crosswind correction, any time
there is a crosswind.



" wrote
in message
oups.com...
|
|
| On Jan 14, 10:00 am, wrote:
| Hi,
|
| i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land),
VFR-add-on to my
| PP-ASEL.
| Any comments about the best training aircraft for these
purpose ?
| (PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond
DA42, ..)
|
| There are big differences concerning the rating
requirements.
| Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6 hours,
other 25 hours
| for the rating.
|
| Why it is so ?
|
| Mike
|
| Hey Mike, my $0.02-
|
| I learned in a Seminole, and now I am transitioning into a
DA42. Both
| are fairly easy to fly. The Seminole has counter rotating
engines
| which make the critical engine not a factor. The one I
trained in has
| steam gauges. The DA42 is a G1000 plane, and FADEC
controlled.
|
| Are you familiar with the G1000? It will take you a while
to get used
| to the display and setting up the GPS, finding pages, etc.
You can get
| a free simulator from Garmin to work through this, but be
aware it will
| take a little while. (If equipped the Avidyne in the
Seminole will need
| some transition time as well).
|
| The DA42 is really nice to fly. Decent power, nice
handling
| characteristics while flying, and during single engine
operations. The
| 44' wingspan takes a bit getting used to (the winglets sit
over 7' in
| the air, so it requires careful taxiing).
|
| A little info on both:
|
| Seminole:
| -Will teach you about controlling constant speed engines
with standard
| controls (mix, prop, throttles, and manual feathering)
| -Cowl Flaps, and proper cooling needs
| -Burns around 20 GPH.
| -Counter rotating engines means that Vmc is lower
| -You can shut engines off during training and fully secure
them w/o
| damaging the engine--
| -Janitrol heater and associated controls/limitations-
(quick heat!)
| -Stall characteristics are pretty benign
|
| Twin Star:
| -A bit faster (~165 to 170kts cruise)
| -G1000
| -FADEC-- not as much to master, engine shutdown,
feathering is just the
| flip of a switch
|
| -A lot of failures will need to be simulated but not
physically done,
| for example, you can not shutdown engine using full
shutoff during
| training (as it will damage the fuel pump).
| -Burns around 10GPH (Jet A)
| -Has a critical engine
| -Stall characteristics are pretty benign
| -can extend the gear at any speed up to Vne
| -Anti ice capability along with oxygen
| -newer models have the Garmin autopilot with flight
director
| -About 50 different abnormal conditions that require the
use of special
| checklists (not critical problems, but need checklists to
resolve)
| -Full electrical system failure will eventually lead to
engine shutdown
| -Quieter than the Seminole (from the inside)
| -simple run up
| -needs continual crosswind correction during landing
(those winglets
| work like sails as well)
| -takes a while to get heat in the cabin
|
| Len
| CPS/MEL IA
| KBFI
|

wrote:
Yes, you are correct. What I should have stated is that the Twinstar is
more sensitive to it than the seminole. I find I've needed to put in
more correction and need to keep it in longer on the landing roll than
the seminole.

The seminole is more tolerant of taking out the crosswind correction in
the beginning part of the landing roll, whereas the twinstar needs to
have it kept in till you are just about stopped.


Len, did you buy a TwinStar or is it a rental? Fractional share? What's
the occasion for the transition training?

Kingfish wrote:
wrote:
Yes, you are correct. What I should have stated is that the Twinstar is
more sensitive to it than the seminole. I find I've needed to put in
more correction and need to keep it in longer on the landing roll than
the seminole.

The seminole is more tolerant of taking out the crosswind correction in
the beginning part of the landing roll, whereas the twinstar needs to
have it kept in till you are just about stopped.


Len, did you buy a TwinStar or is it a rental? Fractional share? What's
the occasion for the transition training?

The place I rent has both, but the Seminole is down for major
maintenance (new engines, etc). I am guessing there is good chance
that they will sell off the Seminole in favor of the Twinstar. The
Twinstar has a couple pluses over the seminole (glass cockpit/lower
fuel consumption/FADEC simplicity).

I am currently working on my MEI, and wanted to be familiar with both
Aircraft, hence the need for transition.

Len

wrote:
The place I rent has both, but the Seminole is down for major
maintenance (new engines, etc). I am guessing there is good chance
that they will sell off the Seminole in favor of the Twinstar. The
Twinstar has a couple pluses over the seminole (glass cockpit/lower
fuel consumption/FADEC simplicity).

I am currently working on my MEI, and wanted to be familiar with both
Aircraft, hence the need for transition.


Wow, that's gotta be one of the first DA42s in the US? And a rental to
boot?

Kingfish wrote:
wrote:
The place I rent has both, but the Seminole is down for major
maintenance (new engines, etc). I am guessing there is good chance
that they will sell off the Seminole in favor of the Twinstar. The
Twinstar has a couple pluses over the seminole (glass cockpit/lower
fuel consumption/FADEC simplicity).

I am currently working on my MEI, and wanted to be familiar with both
Aircraft, hence the need for transition.


Wow, that's gotta be one of the first DA42s in the US? And a rental to
boot?

They had the first one for about 4 months. It spent a few weeks as a
demonstrator, and about 2 1/2 months ago, they moved it training. They
received a second leaseback Twinstar about a month ago.

The FBO has a Frasca G1000 Simulator for the Twinstar. It has a 200deg
field of view, and replicates the aircraft really well. It allows you
to do things you'd never do in real life, like engine failures on
takeoff. It can go as far as popping circuit breakers, and allows for
just about every G1000/electrical/hydraulic failure mode of the
aircraft that you possibly get. The autopilot even works and responds
properly, and the weather can be pretty accurate.

The only things that are odd with the sim are some poor ground friction
modeling, and if you extend the gear manually, the sim doesn't seem to
have the proper code to act like they are down. It also has the older
autopilot (not the integrated Garmin w/flight director in the new
ones).

However, the sim is a great (and less expensive) place to learn
procedures and flows, and to push students without the complexity of
the real flying environment.

writes:

The FBO has a Frasca G1000 Simulator for the Twinstar. It has a 200deg
field of view, and replicates the aircraft really well. It allows you
to do things you'd never do in real life, like engine failures on
takeoff. It can go as far as popping circuit breakers, and allows for
just about every G1000/electrical/hydraulic failure mode of the
aircraft that you possibly get. The autopilot even works and responds
properly, and the weather can be pretty accurate.

Does the G1000 reboot at critical moments, just like real life?

However, the sim is a great (and less expensive) place to learn
procedures and flows, and to push students without the complexity of
the real flying environment.

More economical still is a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

Does the G1000 reboot at critical moments, just like real life?

What do you know about "real Life?"

The only G1000 problems I've ever heard of were some caused by a hack
installation job by another moron.

Does the G1000 reboot at critical moments, just like real life?

I've only heard of one case of this happening, and it was due to the
aircraft (C172) being configured for ferry flight. The fuel transfer
from the ferry tank overfilled the main tanks and caused the level
gauges to exceed their range, causing a G1000 failure. Cessna/Garmin
probably didn't consider this in their original configuration, as ferry
tanks are usually only used once in the life of the aircraft, if at
all. I'm pretty sure either a Service Bulletin or a firmware update has
been issued to address this. The manufacturers don't sit on their hands
with this kind of stuff.

The Twinstars we fly have aux tanks. If they fill the main tanks it
will shut down the fuel transfer. The gauges stop the fuel transfer,
and therefore there is no way to over run the level gauges. Even if the
gauge was faulty, the flight manual procedure is to burn the entire
volume of the aux tanks (17 gallons) down in each main before
transferring fuel.

Besides, any good instruction includes what to do if you have an
electrical/system failure. The Frasca is a great place to try this out
in a safe and realistic environment.

However, the sim is a great (and less expensive) place to learn
procedures and flows, and to push students without the complexity of
the real flying environment.More economical still is a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator.

In a risk to feed possible flamebait, I'll bite. I'll assume you just
don't have experience with this.

For preliminary training, understanding instrumentation, basic
aerodynamics, etc, MSFS isn't bad. However, if you really want to
learn procedures and *actually* fly, you need to get in the plane. MSFS
doesn't simulate everything. The G1000 simulator that is available
from Garmin is a great tool as well to understand the different
capabilities of the glass cockpit as well, and is very cost effective.
I've done both. But you eventually need to get in the aircraft and fly
it. Flying in real life is quite a bit different than any simulator
(with possible exception of the full motion sims).

Finally, being a Frasca and approved by the FAA, I can log instrument
approaches, and time in the Sim. You can't do that with MSFS. Also
getting hands on experience with the equipment is vital to actual
flying.