Anthony, question about IFR / IMC

Tim writes:

Let me help you here - Mx meant that you must fly on instruments when you
have no reliable outside visual references.

Exactly. Thank you.

I'm no Mx fan - far from it. But sometimes you guys are your own worst
enemy.

Especially if their zeal to make fun in this venue influences their conduct in
real life, which it almost certainly does (the more you repeat something, the
more likely you are to start believing it, no matter how foolish it might be).

writes:

Let me help you here - Mx has no grasp of nuance, subtlety, or shades
of grey and everything is black and white, ergo if you are in instrument
conditions, you must be on instruments.

It never hurts to be on instruments, except for traffic avoidance. You can
fly IFR in VMC conditions as long as you watch for traffic, but you cannot fly
VFR (legally) in IMC, and you certainly cannot fly VFR safely in the poor
visibility conditions that tend to characterize IMC.

As long as you stay in VMC for all your flying, dismissing what I say is fine.
But if you get stuck in hard IMC one day, you'll die. It's a really important
concept to understand, and I didn't make it up myself. Many, many pilots die
because they stubbornly refuse to accept it.

Bob F. writes:

Well, why not, that's right! If you are in "instrument conditions" you
must be on instruments. Now on the other hand, if you were in IMC per the
AIM definition, that would be another situation.

Not really. If you're in IMC but you can still see out the window, it means
that the risk is high that you will not be able to see out the window in just
a few minutes or miles. If you continue to rely on visual references even in
IMC just because you can still see something outside, you're putting yourself
in danger. There are good reasons why the regulations mention a distance from
clouds in most contexts, instead of just being outside the clouds.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Let me help you here - Mx has no grasp of nuance, subtlety, or shades
of grey and everything is black and white, ergo if you are in instrument
conditions, you must be on instruments.

It never hurts to be on instruments, except for traffic avoidance. You can
fly IFR in VMC conditions as long as you watch for traffic, but you cannot fly
VFR (legally) in IMC, and you certainly cannot fly VFR safely in the poor
visibility conditions that tend to characterize IMC.

As long as you stay in VMC for all your flying, dismissing what I say is fine.
But if you get stuck in hard IMC one day, you'll die. It's a really important
concept to understand, and I didn't make it up myself. Many, many pilots die
because they stubbornly refuse to accept it.

Translation:

If the real pilots flying real airplanes with real IFR ratings don't
fly exactly like someone who has never flown a real airplane under
any conditions says, they will all die.

Right.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Aug 13, 3:55*pm, wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
Let me help you here - Mx has no grasp of nuance, subtlety, or shades
of grey and everything is black and white, ergo if you are in instrument
conditions, you must be on instruments.
It never hurts to be on instruments, except for traffic avoidance. *You can
fly IFR in VMC conditions as long as you watch for traffic, but you cannot fly
VFR (legally) in IMC, and you certainly cannot fly VFR safely in the poor
visibility conditions that tend to characterize IMC.
As long as you stay in VMC for all your flying, dismissing what I say is fine.
But if you get stuck in hard IMC one day, you'll die. *It's a really important
concept to understand, and I didn't make it up myself. *Many, many pilots die
because they stubbornly refuse to accept it.

Translation:

If the real pilots flying real airplanes with real IFR ratings don't
fly exactly like someone who has never flown a real airplane under
any conditions says, they will all die.

Right.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Mx is looking for a credible soap box: sort of like watching a fly in
a spider web, isn't it?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Bob F. writes:

Well, why not, that's right! If you are in "instrument conditions" you
must be on instruments. Now on the other hand, if you were in IMC per
the
AIM definition, that would be another situation.

Not really. If you're in IMC but you can still see out the window, it
means
that the risk is high that you will not be able to see out the window in
just
a few minutes or miles. If you continue to rely on visual references even
in
IMC just because you can still see something outside, you're putting
yourself
in danger. There are good reasons why the regulations mention a distance
from
clouds in most contexts, instead of just being outside the clouds.


Yes, really. It's "another situation" since the definitions are different.
How one handles the difference is another conversation.

--
Regards, BobF.

On Aug 14, 7:55 am, wrote:

Translation:

If the real pilots flying real airplanes with real IFR ratings don't
fly exactly like someone who has never flown a real airplane under
any conditions says, they will all die.

Right.

Bingo.
That's why Anthony is still in France.
He knows that the distance between Europe and the US is far enough
that some if not all the flight will be conducted under IFR rules and
at night.

On Aug 13, 2:46*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

If you continue to rely on visual references even in
IMC just because you can still see something outside, you're putting yourself
in danger. *

Oh...my...gosh.
Anthony, please, this statement is wrong. Flying in IMC with visual
reference is not dangerous. Visual transition from the instruments to
the outside references to back on the instruments is as natural as
breathing once an IFR pilot has a little experience.

The dangerous thing here, Anthony, is a student believing any of this
gibberish that you type.

Ricky

"Ricky" wrote in message
...
On Aug 13, 2:46 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

If you continue to rely on visual references even in
IMC just because you can still see something outside, you're putting
yourself
in danger.

Oh...my...gosh.
Anthony, please, this statement is wrong. Flying in IMC with visual
reference is not dangerous. Visual transition from the instruments to
the outside references to back on the instruments is as natural as
breathing once an IFR pilot has a little experience.

I've trained a lot of instrument pilots. They all have been surprised, in
actual transitions when it occurred, how easy it was to make the change. It
is alway fun to hear the glee about this from them, but it was no big deal.
I liked doing training in actual conditions. When I worked with ATP's this
was no deal at all.

The dangerous thing here, Anthony, is a student believing any of this
gibberish that you type.

Ricky

--
Regards, BobF.

Ricky writes:

Flying in IMC with visual reference is not dangerous.

That's what John Kennedy thought.