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#21
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
On 10/8/2010 7:37 AM, CaveLamb wrote:
The op gave us this link... http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown if not towed... The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... Tony |
#22
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
TonyW wrote: On 10/8/2010 7:37 AM, CaveLamb wrote: The op gave us this link... http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...cs-1-video.htm l Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown if not towed... Apparently, the FAI thinks differently. http://www.physorg.com/news204386550.html "But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour." The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not... ....but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-) -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#23
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
On 10/8/2010 2:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
"But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour." I don't think that's far or long enough to prove anything. A light breeze of a headwind would have done the same. The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not... ...but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-) That's one thing we can agree on. BTW, I might have bought human powered if the had towed it with a rope pulled by the track team but then again, I still think it's a flapping glider... Tony |
#24
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
"TonyW" wrote in message ... The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... Tony I kinda think there were some folks in Dayton saying the same thing about a hundren and ten or so years ago. Who knows what will come of this. There are bound to be some side-benefits. .... Eventually. Flash Flash |
#25
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
TonyW wrote: On 10/8/2010 2:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote: "But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour." I don't think that's far or long enough to prove anything. A light breeze of a headwind would have done the same. Alas, you are not the arbiter of what is and what is not... ...flight. :-) The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not... ...but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-) That's one thing we can agree on. BTW, I might have bought human powered if the had towed it with a rope pulled by the track team but then again, I still think it's a flapping glider... You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and altitude... ....that seems like flight to me. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#26
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
"Flash60601" wrote: "TonyW" wrote in message ... The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... Tony I kinda think there were some folks in Dayton saying the same thing about a hundren and ten or so years ago. Who knows what will come of this. There are bound to be some side-benefits. ... Eventually. Flash Flash And the Wright's first attempts gained airspeed by sliding down a track on a hill... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#27
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
"Alan Baker" wrote You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and altitude... ...that seems like flight to me. Alan; I gotta' ask; what dog do you have in this fight? Why do you argue your point so strongly, to the point of putting down people that have an opinion that differs from yours? This seems to be very much a discussion of opinion on a subject You opining one point of view holds no more weight than Lamb or someone else spouting their opinion, to me. It isn't as if this is an open and shut case. They did not make a flight with the basic definition of taking off, maintaining flight, and returning to a place with the same elevation. Even early definitions of powered flight with the Wright Brothers had some or all of these basic definitions. Yes, they seem to have flown by human power, but only with help to start the flight. The flapping shown is a type that I have never seen a bird use. All of the birds have their wings hinged where they attach to their bodies and these hinges allow the wing to pivot up and down to initiate flight, and they usually have a joint out further on their wing that also hinges for additional power and control... but this man powered creation has none of those characteristics. Seems to me that this whole thing was supposed to be imitating nature's animals methods of flying. That, it does not do, in my opinion. Seems like it is a way to "cheat" the imitation of flapping creature's flying methodology. Please note that this has been expressed as my opinion, and I did not put anyone else "down" as I presented it, as all civil discussions should strive to do. Jim in NC |
#28
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
"Morgans" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and altitude... ...that seems like flight to me. Alan; I gotta' ask; what dog do you have in this fight? Why do you argue your point so strongly, to the point of putting down people that have an opinion that differs from yours? What put downs have I made? I find it annoying when people just make pronouncements on subjects they haven't even bother to investigate. This seems to be very much a discussion of opinion on a subject And I gave mine in response to TonyW. I didn't put him down, I simply pointed out a fact. You opining one point of view holds no more weight than Lamb or someone else spouting their opinion, to me. It isn't as if this is an open and shut case. They did not make a flight with the basic definition of taking off, maintaining flight, and returning to a place with the same elevation. Even early definitions of powered flight with the Wright Brothers had some or all of these basic definitions. I'm doing rather more than giving my opinion. I'm presenting supporting evidence. Yes, they seem to have flown by human power, but only with help to start the flight. The flapping shown is a type that I have never seen a bird use. All of the birds have their wings hinged where they attach to their bodies and these hinges allow the wing to pivot up and down to initiate flight, and they usually have a joint out further on their wing that also hinges for additional power and control... but this man powered creation has none of those characteristics. What has that got to with whether or not the flight is powered by the flapping of the wings? Are you really saying that the definition of "flapping" hinges (if you'll pardon the pun) on the existence of joints? Does it have to actually be a joint where two separate structures meet and surfaces slide over one another? Seems to me that this whole thing was supposed to be imitating nature's animals methods of flying. That, it does not do, in my opinion. Seems like it is a way to "cheat" the imitation of flapping creature's flying methodology. The thrust and lift both come from the wings. Please note that this has been expressed as my opinion, and I did not put anyone else "down" as I presented it, as all civil discussions should strive to do. I think if you see a put down in my previous post, you're way too thin-skinned... ....or is that a put down, too? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#29
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
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#30
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
Tom De Moor wrote: In article , says... I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown if not towed... That is not the question. A human can produce over an extended period of time about 200 W (or roughly 1/3 of a HP). It's kind of hard to take off with that kind of horsepower. The builders claim that they extended the glide by flapping the wings only using human power. That should be sufficient to be an ornithopter: they could also be lauched from a clif of a (big) birdnest to gain the initial start energy. Anyway: a man-carrying ornithopter remains an elusif bird, let alone a human powered one. A man-carry engine-powered ornithopter has already been done. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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