One-man rigging aids - is the electric up/down control worth it?

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:23:36 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Older GRP maybe....I haven't seen a tool like that in anything made in 30+ years.
I have seen SGS-1-35, and older glass ships, but I usually deal with "AWx" ships, so, I am not an expert.
Most "newer" ships can use a longer tapered pin to align the first hole (assuming 2 root pins) to get one started, then fiddle the 2nd one in......

I know of at least two Nimbus 4's delivered with the "crowbar tool". I put rubber hose over mine, but I have seen another one used on someone's glider without any covering

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 9:12:09 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:23:36 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Older GRP maybe....I haven't seen a tool like that in anything made in 30+ years.
I have seen SGS-1-35, and older glass ships, but I usually deal with "AWx" ships, so, I am not an expert.
Most "newer" ships can use a longer tapered pin to align the first hole (assuming 2 root pins) to get one started, then fiddle the 2nd one in......

I know of at least two Nimbus 4's delivered with the "crowbar tool". I put rubber hose over mine, but I have seen another one used on someone's glider without any covering

Factory graunch bars were pretty common, but sometimes the lift pins showed some wear of using muscle over mind. Alignment is worth the time spent on it, so good rigging aids really help.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 1:12:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:06:03 AM UTC-5, Gary Wayland wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:44:34 AM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
My new club seems to have a culture of rig in April and derig in October! Personally I prefer to rig and derig for each flight, unless I know that there is a run of several days good weather and I'm available to fly. I have covers (Cloud-dancers) but I really don't think they offer the protection against UV that is needed for leaving it outdoors for long periods.

Anyhow, as a consequence, it's not always easy to get help to rig/de-rig so I'm thinking of getting a on-man rigging aid. It seems that I can get one from IMI for about €900 that is manually-adjustable for height and sideways alignment, or I could pay around €1500 for an electrically-adjustable version. I'm happy to pay for the more expensive one, if it's worth it. So, if any of you have any experiences/opinions, I'd be happy to hear them!

Thanks in advance.

I have a Fonz-Mobile one man rigger... No Motors! Use the cradle carriage pump to do the up and down when adjusting for the final pin in the spar....

Gary

"SQ"

Looks like we have a bunch of girly luddites on this topic. Two points: the linear actuators are dirt-cheap and easy to fit even to existing riggers.. I built my own. Second, remote control of those actuators cost you a whopping $10-20 and makes it super easy to get the pins in. Here is my rigger whirring away in my basement (no wing saddle fitted).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N43YMoq2h7s&t=3s
Now watch it in action, ~7 min for the inside wings. Try to beat that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmaUsPtvSI&t=1s

That looks pretty sweet Herb. What's the mode of failure if the reduction gears break? Does the lead screw unwind under load and drop your wing to minimum height?

best,
Evan Ludeman

Hi Evan, no the failure mode is wherever it left off. I have one, Glider-Rigger, I demoed at Perry this year that uses the same actuators as Herb's wireless remote and breaks down small and packs up in a nice padded covers and softcase all designed to go in the front of the trailer. he is working on revision 3.2 now. It comes with wireless remote and uses 1.5 amp hour cordless drill batteries about 10 or so rigging before charging. It will ship with 2 batteries and charger identical to the Milwaukee 18 volt cordless drill batteries. Website is still under construction but will be:
Glider-Rigger.com email is ventureflight (at) gmail (dot) com

CH ASW27

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 5:59:17 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 1:12:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:06:03 AM UTC-5, Gary Wayland wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:44:34 AM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
My new club seems to have a culture of rig in April and derig in October! Personally I prefer to rig and derig for each flight, unless I know that there is a run of several days good weather and I'm available to fly. I have covers (Cloud-dancers) but I really don't think they offer the protection against UV that is needed for leaving it outdoors for long periods.

Anyhow, as a consequence, it's not always easy to get help to rig/de-rig so I'm thinking of getting a on-man rigging aid. It seems that I can get one from IMI for about €900 that is manually-adjustable for height and sideways alignment, or I could pay around €1500 for an electrically-adjustable version. I'm happy to pay for the more expensive one, if it's worth it. So, if any of you have any experiences/opinions, I'd be happy to hear them!

Thanks in advance.

I have a Fonz-Mobile one man rigger... No Motors! Use the cradle carriage pump to do the up and down when adjusting for the final pin in the spar...

Gary

"SQ"

Looks like we have a bunch of girly luddites on this topic. Two points: the linear actuators are dirt-cheap and easy to fit even to existing riggers. I built my own. Second, remote control of those actuators cost you a whopping $10-20 and makes it super easy to get the pins in. Here is my rigger whirring away in my basement (no wing saddle fitted).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N43YMoq2h7s&t=3s
Now watch it in action, ~7 min for the inside wings. Try to beat that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmaUsPtvSI&t=1s

That looks pretty sweet Herb. What's the mode of failure if the reduction gears break? Does the lead screw unwind under load and drop your wing to minimum height?

best,
Evan Ludeman

Not sure what you mean by 'failure mode', Evan. There is no brake mechanism in the actuator as far as I know. It just stops and locks due to the small pitch of the spindle/screw system. A short push on the remote button will give you a rather constant 3-5mm travel so you can finely adjust the position.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 6:23:36 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Older GRP maybe....I haven't seen a tool like that in anything made in 30+ years.
I have seen SGS-1-35, and older glass ships, but I usually deal with "AWx" ships, so, I am not an expert.
Most "newer" ships can use a longer tapered pin to align the first hole (assuming 2 root pins) to get one started, then fiddle the 2nd one in......

304CZ has such, not that old.

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:13:00 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 5:59:17 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 1:12:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:06:03 AM UTC-5, Gary Wayland wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:44:34 AM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
My new club seems to have a culture of rig in April and derig in October! Personally I prefer to rig and derig for each flight, unless I know that there is a run of several days good weather and I'm available to fly. I have covers (Cloud-dancers) but I really don't think they offer the protection against UV that is needed for leaving it outdoors for long periods.

Anyhow, as a consequence, it's not always easy to get help to rig/de-rig so I'm thinking of getting a on-man rigging aid. It seems that I can get one from IMI for about €900 that is manually-adjustable for height and sideways alignment, or I could pay around €1500 for an electrically-adjustable version. I'm happy to pay for the more expensive one, if it's worth it. So, if any of you have any experiences/opinions, I'd be happy to hear them!

Thanks in advance.

I have a Fonz-Mobile one man rigger... No Motors! Use the cradle carriage pump to do the up and down when adjusting for the final pin in the spar...

Gary

"SQ"

Looks like we have a bunch of girly luddites on this topic. Two points: the linear actuators are dirt-cheap and easy to fit even to existing riggers. I built my own. Second, remote control of those actuators cost you a whopping $10-20 and makes it super easy to get the pins in. Here is my rigger whirring away in my basement (no wing saddle fitted).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N43YMoq2h7s&t=3s
Now watch it in action, ~7 min for the inside wings. Try to beat that..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmaUsPtvSI&t=1s

That looks pretty sweet Herb. What's the mode of failure if the reduction gears break? Does the lead screw unwind under load and drop your wing to minimum height?

best,
Evan Ludeman

Not sure what you mean by 'failure mode', Evan. There is no brake mechanism in the actuator as far as I know. It just stops and locks due to the small pitch of the spindle/screw system. A short push on the remote button will give you a rather constant 3-5mm travel so you can finely adjust the position.

Gear failures in these low cost actuators are not unknown. If the gears break, but the motor is the only brake, can you see the potential problem?

Sorry -- it's my job to think about crap like this.

best,
Evan

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 11:24:05 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:13:00 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 5:59:17 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 1:12:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:06:03 AM UTC-5, Gary Wayland wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:44:34 AM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
My new club seems to have a culture of rig in April and derig in October! Personally I prefer to rig and derig for each flight, unless I know that there is a run of several days good weather and I'm available to fly. I have covers (Cloud-dancers) but I really don't think they offer the protection against UV that is needed for leaving it outdoors for long periods.

Anyhow, as a consequence, it's not always easy to get help to rig/de-rig so I'm thinking of getting a on-man rigging aid. It seems that I can get one from IMI for about €900 that is manually-adjustable for height and sideways alignment, or I could pay around €1500 for an electrically-adjustable version. I'm happy to pay for the more expensive one, if it's worth it. So, if any of you have any experiences/opinions, I'd be happy to hear them!

Thanks in advance.

I have a Fonz-Mobile one man rigger... No Motors! Use the cradle carriage pump to do the up and down when adjusting for the final pin in the spar...

Gary

"SQ"

Looks like we have a bunch of girly luddites on this topic. Two points: the linear actuators are dirt-cheap and easy to fit even to existing riggers. I built my own. Second, remote control of those actuators cost you a whopping $10-20 and makes it super easy to get the pins in. Here is my rigger whirring away in my basement (no wing saddle fitted).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N43YMoq2h7s&t=3s
Now watch it in action, ~7 min for the inside wings. Try to beat that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmaUsPtvSI&t=1s

That looks pretty sweet Herb. What's the mode of failure if the reduction gears break? Does the lead screw unwind under load and drop your wing to minimum height?

best,
Evan Ludeman

Not sure what you mean by 'failure mode', Evan. There is no brake mechanism in the actuator as far as I know. It just stops and locks due to the small pitch of the spindle/screw system. A short push on the remote button will give you a rather constant 3-5mm travel so you can finely adjust the position.

Gear failures in these low cost actuators are not unknown. If the gears break, but the motor is the only brake, can you see the potential problem?

Sorry -- it's my job to think about crap like this.

best,
Evan

Evan,
If I get really bored some day, I will take out the gears from the motor to the spindle (or maybe it's the nut that is being turned) and see how the system reacts to compression. I strongly assume that the pitch of the screw is so low, that it is self arresting - just like in all our fasteners.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:05:16 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 11:13:15 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
A couple of days ago I witnessed an attempt to rig a 1-36 (I think it
was), and the owner was using a crow bar!* Try that with FRP structures.

--
Dan, 5J

Once when I was rigging my HP14 years ago a "helpful" bystander wanted to apply a hammer to the balky spar pins.

That said, some FRP gliders come with a sort of crowbar from the factory, to draw the wings together that last inch -
applying the forces to suitably engineered points.

An indelible memory for me, shortly after starting my flight training
in 1970, was the sight of the late Dick Johnson driving home the main
pin into his HP-13 with a 5 lb sledge hammer. Apparently normal
procedure for Dick and this particular ship.

Bob

Herb, I think Evan asked a valid question, seems like you gave a valid answer. I see no need to "remove gears" to test a geartrain failure issue.
If a fine pitch (as you indicated), likely basically no issue.
Thick grease may negate an issue on a coarser pitch.

Unless, of course, a major earthquake that rattles bits around......then, what a wing rigger when it fails is doing is likely a moot point.... ;-)