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LS 4 vs ASW 20



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th 13, 05:32 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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Posts: 324
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

Your opinions please.

Walt
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  #2  
Old May 19th 13, 10:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,231
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:32:37 PM UTC+2, Walt Connelly wrote:
Your opinions please.


LS4 has go to be the easiest and safest std class glider to fly. Excellent performance if flown correctly (don't thermal too slow - fast and steep seems better), goes well loaded with water, big cockpit, foolproof (well, almost) gear system. If it was in production now, it would be the perfect first solo glider.

ASW-20 is a classic, great performance, but can be tricky in some configurations, and probably not a beginners's glider.

Both are wonderful to fly - which is better depends on what you want to do. Fun flying - the LS4 it tough to beat. Serious XC or racing on a budget? The 20 can hang in there still and has the "busy" feel that can be really cool.

Kirk
66
  #3  
Old May 19th 13, 11:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
noel.wade
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Posts: 668
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

On May 19, 9:32*am, Walt Connelly
wrote:
Your opinions please.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly


Walt -

Both are great gliders. Unless you're interested in pushing them to
the absolute limit, you should probably base this decision on non-
flying characteristics. The two ones I'd be most-concerned about a
1) Ergonomics. Which glider fits you better? If you're going for any
multi-hour flights, cockpit ergonomics becomes important!
2) Trailer. Which glider has a better trailer? Cobra/Komet "clamshell-
type" trailers are much preferable to tube-type trailers (I say this
having owned both).

Of course price pays a factor, as does the double-edged sword of flaps
(you can go faster, faster; but its an additional item to worry about
every time you transition from climbing to cruise, cruise to climb, on
takeoff, and on landing).

Good luck,

--Noel

  #4  
Old May 20th 13, 12:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 6
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:32:37 AM UTC-5, Walt Connelly wrote:
Your opinions please.



Walt









--

Walt Connelly


I had a Minden tube ..... great trailer. Easy in/out, tows great..... the gelcoat or refinish is the money question.
  #5  
Old May 20th 13, 02:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Terry Pitts
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Posts: 37
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

I'm 6' tall and weight more than I'd like. Though I have no experience with the ASW20 to compare, I found the LS4 quite comfortable except for the time the seat was too far forward and my parachute too low...
  #6  
Old May 20th 13, 02:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Posts: 674
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:32:37 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Your opinions please.



Walt


I have a few hundred hours in an LS4 compared to only about 20 or so in ASW20s (two original models sometimes called "A" and a C). So, there's a slight bias in terms of experience.

- LS4 is almost the perfect standard class glider. Incredibly easy to fly with good takeoff and landing characteristics and just doesn't bite unless horribly provoked. Excellent performance. The only two things I'd change are the landing gear (tiny wheel and pathetic brake) and the canopy mechanism (fiddly and insubstantial compared to Schleicher). I loved mine and sold it mainly because it was 20 years old and starting to require more care and feeding.

- ASW20 is just a classic 15M ship. I found the winglets to be a big improvement for low speed handling, but the original straight tips weren't too bad. The early 20's could land in a small pasture with L flap - just be sure you have enough energy to round out. I would say that a 20 in thermal flap can be "interesting" in a spin if provoked; I found that it would recover at or maybe slightly beyond vertical depending on CG and the spin entry mode. Maybe a little more of a handful than the LS4, but something you would easily get used to with some hours.

IMO, you can't go wrong with either of these. If you're buying used, it's the age old compromise of airframe, instruments, and trailer. A refinish is the biggest cost, followed by trailer and then instruments.

Email me directly if you want more notes on the LS4; I have a whole notebook I wrote up when I owned mine.

P3
  #7  
Old May 20th 13, 04:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
guy
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Posts: 58
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

Both are classic gliders. Great examples of a flapped and standard
class ships. Both fly beautifully with the LS-4 being the most
predictable and most comfortable, in my opinion.
Similar to other commenters, I would put my primary emphasis on the
trailer, and secondarily on the condition of the ship.
I have found the trailer to be the most significant issue in the
quality of my soaring day. A marginal trailer results in cut hands,
bumped heads, sore backs, and new dents and dings on the ship. A
great trailer allows easy one person rigging with no personal injuries
and virtually no new damage to the ship.

I purchased an SZD-59 a several years ago that had a Polish copy of a
Cobra trailer. Looked nice. However, all the details of how nuts and
bolts were placed, clearances between wings and trailer sides, how the
elevator mounted in the trailer, how the ramp moved in and out were
sooooooooooo different from my real Cobra trailer with my previous
ship, that I ended up buying a new Cobra trailer for my ship. It made
all the difference in the pleasure of my soaring day. It made all the
difference to me in deciding on a marginal day whether I would go out
to the glider port or not.

Actually, I would base my decision on the trailer first, and the ship
second. Unless, of course, you have the money to pay people to set-up
your ship upon your beckoned call when you want to fly. Then it is
their knuckles, fingers, backs, and scalps that experience the
differences.

Guy Acheson "DDS"
  #8  
Old May 20th 13, 03:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Wallace Berry[_2_]
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Posts: 103
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

In article ,
"kirk.stant" wrote:


Both are wonderful to fly - which is better depends on what you want to do.
Fun flying - the LS4 it tough to beat. Serious XC or racing on a budget? The
20 can hang in there still and has the "busy" feel that can be really cool.

Kirk
66



Yes, the "busy" feel of the glider talking about what the air is doing.
That's my only reservation about the LS-4. It is almost too placid in
the air. I'm used to flying a 301 Libelle, the very definition of a
"busy" feeling glider. LS-4's, while extremely easy and pleasant to fly,
feel almost "dead" to me compared to my Libelle or a -20.

My preference, from flying so long with flaps, is for flapped ships.
Whenever I fly an unflapped ship, it always feels like diving at the
ground to go fast.
  #9  
Old May 20th 13, 06:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Posts: 674
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:30:51 AM UTC-4, WB wrote:
In article ,


My preference, from flying so long with flaps, is for flapped ships.

Whenever I fly an unflapped ship, it always feels like diving at the

ground to go fast.


I think the Brits coined the term "tilters" for folks who fly Standard Class vs. Flapped gliders. We tilt at the ground to go faster. You shove the flap handle forward. :-)

P3
Flapless and Proud
  #10  
Old May 20th 13, 07:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 12
Default LS 4 vs ASW 20

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:32:37 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Your opinions please.



Walt









--

Walt Connelly


Walt:

I owned an LS-4a and flew it quite a few hours!... it was the best investment anybody (Andy McQuigg!) could have recommended me!... want mo talk to Karen & Billy Kerns!

See you one of these days!
Best regards
Enrique
KO
 




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