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#1
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flaps
Aviators,
My wife and I flew to Williamsburg (JGG) in our 177RG on Sat. and stayed until Sunday. On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. I had 20 degrees of flaps in and that is what I usually land with. On final the airspeed was just coming out of the green and touching the white arc with only 15 inches manifold pressure. On short final I dropped the last 10 degrees, but despite that, man I came across the threshold like a bat-out-of-hell. The runway was only 3000 feet, but somehow I got it down and stopped after heavy brake burning. I just figured I used some really bad technique or picked up a tailwind. I looked at the wind sock and it was stone dead and limp. On my pre-flight for the trip home I found out why all this happened. Sometime after lift-off to JGG the flaps went TU. I had no flaps on landing and I never noticed!! I can hardly believe I don't consciencely or unconsciencely look to see if the flaps are deploying. Why didn't I notice that the flap indicator didn't move or that the plane didn't change pitch or that it didn't push me against the shoulder harness as usual. I just didn't catch the fact that no flaps came out. Now I had to get home. I called my mechanic and he said it could be many things (it wasn't the breaker). He also said I was a complete wimp (he used a different word that began with a p) if I couldn't land that plane without the flaps on our 3,500 feet of runway. I took off and started to ponder the situation: No flaps No daylight with 3 miles vis. in haze and mist (ASOS said 10 miles but no way could you see more than 3 miles) No landing light (it burned out two weeks ago) No wind (so no headwind to help slow the airplane's ground speed on landing) and I've done a grand total of two no-flap landings in my life. One with my primary CFI and one during my check out when I bought the plane. Both during the day with a headwind. Well, obviously everything went fine and I exited on the second taxiway off 19 at N14, my homebase. I landed as slow as I could, but the nose was so high that seeing ahead of the airplane was almost impossible. I used runway 19 because runway 1 has trees on the approach and I wanted to come in as flat as possible. Anyway...how many different things can cause this? Where should I start looking? I also recommend that everyone do some no flap landings each year. Kobra |
#2
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flaps
I land without flaps all the time when I am buy my self. I think I land
smother. I have done this in my Cherokee 180, BE 35, A36 and a skipper I trained in for a short time. "Kobra" wrote in message . .. Aviators, My wife and I flew to Williamsburg (JGG) in our 177RG on Sat. and stayed until Sunday. On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. I had 20 degrees of flaps in and that is what I usually land with. On final the airspeed was just coming out of the green and touching the white arc with only 15 inches manifold pressure. On short final I dropped the last 10 degrees, but despite that, man I came across the threshold like a bat-out-of-hell. The runway was only 3000 feet, but somehow I got it down and stopped after heavy brake burning. I just figured I used some really bad technique or picked up a tailwind. I looked at the wind sock and it was stone dead and limp. On my pre-flight for the trip home I found out why all this happened. Sometime after lift-off to JGG the flaps went TU. I had no flaps on landing and I never noticed!! I can hardly believe I don't consciencely or unconsciencely look to see if the flaps are deploying. Why didn't I notice that the flap indicator didn't move or that the plane didn't change pitch or that it didn't push me against the shoulder harness as usual. I just didn't catch the fact that no flaps came out. Now I had to get home. I called my mechanic and he said it could be many things (it wasn't the breaker). He also said I was a complete wimp (he used a different word that began with a p) if I couldn't land that plane without the flaps on our 3,500 feet of runway. I took off and started to ponder the situation: No flaps No daylight with 3 miles vis. in haze and mist (ASOS said 10 miles but no way could you see more than 3 miles) No landing light (it burned out two weeks ago) No wind (so no headwind to help slow the airplane's ground speed on landing) and I've done a grand total of two no-flap landings in my life. One with my primary CFI and one during my check out when I bought the plane. Both during the day with a headwind. Well, obviously everything went fine and I exited on the second taxiway off 19 at N14, my homebase. I landed as slow as I could, but the nose was so high that seeing ahead of the airplane was almost impossible. I used runway 19 because runway 1 has trees on the approach and I wanted to come in as flat as possible. Anyway...how many different things can cause this? Where should I start looking? I also recommend that everyone do some no flap landings each year. Kobra |
#3
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flaps
On Jul 9, 10:16 pm, "Aluckyguess" wrote:
I land without flaps all the time when I am buy my self. I think I land smother. I have done this in my Cherokee 180, BE 35, A36 and a skipper I trained in for a short time."Kobra" wrote in message . .. Aviators, My wife and I flew to Williamsburg (JGG) in our 177RG on Sat. and stayed until Sunday. On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. I had 20 degrees of flaps in and that is what I usually land with. On final the airspeed was just coming out of the green and touching the white arc with only 15 inches manifold pressure. On short final I dropped the last 10 degrees, but despite that, man I came across the threshold like a bat-out-of-hell. The runway was only 3000 feet, but somehow I got it down and stopped after heavy brake burning. I just figured I used some really bad technique or picked up a tailwind. I looked at the wind sock and it was stone dead and limp. On my pre-flight for the trip home I found out why all this happened. Sometime after lift-off to JGG the flaps went TU. I had no flaps on landing and I never noticed!! I can hardly believe I don't consciencely or unconsciencely look to see if the flaps are deploying. Why didn't I notice that the flap indicator didn't move or that the plane didn't change pitch or that it didn't push me against the shoulder harness as usual. I just didn't catch the fact that no flaps came out. Now I had to get home. I called my mechanic and he said it could be many things (it wasn't the breaker). He also said I was a complete wimp (he used a different word that began with a p) if I couldn't land that plane without the flaps on our 3,500 feet of runway. I took off and started to ponder the situation: No flaps No daylight with 3 miles vis. in haze and mist (ASOS said 10 miles but no way could you see more than 3 miles) No landing light (it burned out two weeks ago) No wind (so no headwind to help slow the airplane's ground speed on landing) and I've done a grand total of two no-flap landings in my life. One with my primary CFI and one during my check out when I bought the plane. Both during the day with a headwind. Well, obviously everything went fine and I exited on the second taxiway off 19 at N14, my homebase. I landed as slow as I could, but the nose was so high that seeing ahead of the airplane was almost impossible. I used runway 19 because runway 1 has trees on the approach and I wanted to come in as flat as possible. Anyway...how many different things can cause this? Where should I start looking? I also recommend that everyone do some no flap landings each year. Kobra- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - W/o flaps you will land in a more nose high attitude, which tends to make for smoother landings, in my experience. ' -Robert, CFII |
#4
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flaps
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:43:01 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: On Jul 9, 10:16 pm, "Aluckyguess" wrote: I land without flaps all the time when I am buy my self. I think I land smother. I have done this in my Cherokee 180, BE 35, A36 and a skipper I trained in for a short time."Kobra" wrote in message . .. Aviators, My wife and I flew to Williamsburg (JGG) in our 177RG on Sat. and stayed until Sunday. On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. I had 20 degrees of flaps in and that is what I usually land with. On final the airspeed was just coming out of the green and touching the white arc with only 15 inches manifold pressure. On short final I dropped the last 10 degrees, but despite that, man I came across the threshold like a bat-out-of-hell. The runway was only 3000 feet, but somehow I got it down and stopped after heavy brake burning. I just figured I used some really bad technique or picked up a tailwind. I looked at the wind sock and it was stone dead and limp. On my pre-flight for the trip home I found out why all this happened. Sometime after lift-off to JGG the flaps went TU. I had no flaps on landing and I never noticed!! I can hardly believe I don't consciencely or unconsciencely look to see if the flaps are deploying. Why didn't I notice that the flap indicator didn't move or that the plane didn't change pitch or that it didn't push me against the shoulder harness as usual. I just didn't catch the fact that no flaps came out. Now I had to get home. I called my mechanic and he said it could be many things (it wasn't the breaker). He also said I was a complete wimp (he used a different word that began with a p) if I couldn't land that plane without the flaps on our 3,500 feet of runway. I took off and started to ponder the situation: No flaps No daylight with 3 miles vis. in haze and mist (ASOS said 10 miles but no way could you see more than 3 miles) No landing light (it burned out two weeks ago) No wind (so no headwind to help slow the airplane's ground speed on landing) and I've done a grand total of two no-flap landings in my life. One with my primary CFI and one during my check out when I bought the plane. Both during the day with a headwind. Well, obviously everything went fine and I exited on the second taxiway off 19 at N14, my homebase. I landed as slow as I could, but the nose was so high that seeing ahead of the airplane was almost impossible. I used runway 19 because runway 1 has trees on the approach and I wanted to come in as flat as possible. That's why they teach slips. Anyway...how many different things can cause this? Where should I start looking? I also recommend that everyone do some no flap landings each year. Kobra- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - W/o flaps you will land in a more nose high attitude, which tends to make for smoother landings, in my experience. A Bo landed properly (landed, not flown on) with no flaps is so nose high the only view you have of the airport is out the side windows. In the past I'd practice them every few weeks. A no flap landing is much faster than a proper landing and can easily use twice as much runway as well. It also adds new meaning to the word, "float". We had a DE here on the field who used to say, "anyone can fly one on but it takes a pilot to land one". ' -Robert, CFII |
#5
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flaps
On 2007-07-10, Kobra wrote:
On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. Right about here my brain started screaming, PUT THE GEAR DOWN! -- Ben Jackson AD7GD http://www.ben.com/ |
#6
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flaps
"Ben Jackson" wrote: On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. Right about here my brain started screaming, PUT THE GEAR DOWN! LOL! Same here. -- Dan T-182T at BFM |
#7
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flaps
On Jul 10, 6:22 am, "Dan Luke" wrote:
"Ben Jackson" wrote: On base at Williamsburg I noticed that the airspeed was really high. I raised the nose and pulled some power. Right about here my brain started screaming, PUT THE GEAR DOWN! LOL! Same here. -- Dan T-182T at BFM My brain would've been screaming: GO AROUND! GO AROUND! |
#8
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flaps
Get a real A&P to check out the flap situation. If its
not the breaker it could be the flap motor (one of the reasons I do like manual flaps). As far as why you didn't notice that your flaps were not working... well... that is disturbing. I notice *every* little sound, motion, vibration or whatever in my airplane. I hardly ever land with full flaps unless its a short field. |
#9
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flaps
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:43:10 +0000, kontiki wrote:
I hardly ever land with full flaps unless its a short field. Why? Unless I've some reason to do otherwise, I'll make every landing as slow and short (and precisely where I want to touch down) as possible. It's all good practice, and the slow part is being gentle on the airplane. I'll often only drop the full flaps on very short final, as I dislike dragging it in. But they're all the way down when I'm landing. Of course, now that I think on it, I've only 30 degrees of flaps. - Andrew |
#10
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flaps
"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
news On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:43:10 +0000, kontiki wrote: I hardly ever land with full flaps unless its a short field. Why? Unless I've some reason to do otherwise, I'll make every landing as slow and short (and precisely where I want to touch down) as possible. It's all good practice, and the slow part is being gentle on the airplane. I'll often only drop the full flaps on very short final, as I dislike dragging it in. But they're all the way down when I'm landing. Of course, now that I think on it, I've only 30 degrees of flaps. - Andrew What I don't understand is how the original poster didn't notice there was no pitch change or re-trim required following application of the missing flaps. It is almost 2nd nature to reach for the trim wheel right after selecting flaps in a Cessna so why didn't the poster notice that he didn't need to retrim? -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas |
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