"Refusing to Handle You"

"Allan9" wrote in message
. ..

Steve do they still use PDR, PDAR, and PARs?.


If by "they" you mean US ATC in general, the answer is yes. I'm not
familiar with the DC area specifically.

Mike,
A phone call to their QA/QC dept. in order.
540-349-7500 main number
540-349-7548 QC dept. if no answer in a couple of days call the number
below.
540-349-7505 for the QC Manager.
Have the time, frequency and tail number ready. You will likely need to
leave a phone message.
Let them know they refused the hand off from Washington.
Michelle

Mike Granby wrote:

So, an interesting thing happened today. I am at a fly-in at Hagerstown
and about to head back to my home-base at York (THV). I can see from
the PC they had there that there is a line of heavy rain and possibly
thunderstorms blocking my route back. There is no way around it to the
north, but there is a way to the south. So, instead of the usual
KHGR-SCAPE-THV to take me north of Camp David, I file a route via
HGR-MRB-EMI to so south and get in to York through the back door.
When I pick up my clearance, I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions." So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather. I ask for a hold at HGR to consider my
options, and luckily, by now the StormScope is showing the line has
dissipated. Now, I'm not happy, 'cos I know there's been cells
appearing along that route all PM, but I have little choice, so I take
the SCAPE route. All ends well, and we have an almost smooth ride, but
I was amazed that they gave me a clearance for that route, and then
wouldn't honor it! Comments???

"Michelle P" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mike,
A phone call to their QA/QC dept. in order.
540-349-7500 main number
540-349-7548 QC dept. if no answer in a couple of days call the number
below.
540-349-7505 for the QC Manager.
Have the time, frequency and tail number ready. You will likely need to
leave a phone message.
Let them know they refused the hand off from Washington.
Michelle


Michelle, what good would come of such a phone call? QA will give you lip
service, but you'd be wasting your time calling about this IMO.

Chip, ZTL

Well, I can just about understand if Potomac doesn't want to handle
routes like that, but they ought to find a way of making sure that
clearances don't get issued that contain those routes. I would have
liked to have been able to plan my other options on the ground with a
PC in front of me, instead of in the air relying on the variable
accuracy of 'spherics.

You would be mistaken. The QC dept. is not floor supervisors. The have
to look at it. I have made several calls to Potomac TRACON QC and I have
seen improvements in their services. I do the same for Leesburg FSS and
I have seen changes there as well. One controller got a few days off for
being rude and just plain wrong.
Michelle


Warren Jones wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
ink.net...


Mike,
A phone call to their QA/QC dept. in order.
540-349-7500 main number
540-349-7548 QC dept. if no answer in a couple of days call the number
below.
540-349-7505 for the QC Manager.
Have the time, frequency and tail number ready. You will likely need to
leave a phone message.
Let them know they refused the hand off from Washington.
Michelle




Michelle, what good would come of such a phone call? QA will give you lip
service, but you'd be wasting your time calling about this IMO.

Chip, ZTL

"Michelle P" wrote in message
link.net...
You would be mistaken. The QC dept. is not floor supervisors. The have to
look at it. I have made several calls to Potomac TRACON QC and I have seen
improvements in their services. I do the same for Leesburg FSS and I have
seen changes there as well. One controller got a few days off for being
rude and just plain wrong.
Michelle



If it makes you feel good, go ahead and call. You are wasting your time. I
assure you that a call to the QA office of a mac-daddy approach control like
Potomac, Southern Cal, Chicago, New York, Atlanta etc, whining about the
facility's refusal to work you en route through busy terminal airspace,
wouldn't make it out of the QA office. They'd pay you lip service, and then
they'd probably laugh about your temerity/stupidity after they hung up the
receiver. Little airplanes IFR en route don't have the magical power to fly
willy nilly through busy Tracons unless the pilot knows the magic word when
he is refused initial clearance. Also, if he uses the magic word, he'd
better be prepared to formally defend its use.

I can imagine that the controllers and flight service specialists in
Maryland and the Old Dominion tremble when they hear your voice on the
radio.

Chip, ZTL

Warren
I take exception to your statement.
The situation would have been researched and the user would have had the
situation explained to them right or wrong. Maybe that's what they would do
in your facility.
Al

"Warren Jones" wrote in message
link.net...

"Michelle P" wrote in message
link.net...
You would be mistaken. The QC dept. is not floor supervisors. The have to
look at it. I have made several calls to Potomac TRACON QC and I have
seen improvements in their services. I do the same for Leesburg FSS and I
have seen changes there as well. One controller got a few days off for
being rude and just plain wrong.
Michelle



If it makes you feel good, go ahead and call. You are wasting your time.
I assure you that a call to the QA office of a mac-daddy approach control
like Potomac, Southern Cal, Chicago, New York, Atlanta etc, whining about
the facility's refusal to work you en route through busy terminal
airspace, wouldn't make it out of the QA office. They'd pay you lip
service, and then they'd probably laugh about your temerity/stupidity
after they hung up the receiver. Little airplanes IFR en route don't have
the magical power to fly willy nilly through busy Tracons unless the pilot
knows the magic word when he is refused initial clearance. Also, if he
uses the magic word, he'd better be prepared to formally defend its use.

I can imagine that the controllers and flight service specialists in
Maryland and the Old Dominion tremble when they hear your voice on the
radio.

Chip, ZTL

On 16 Jul 2005 15:08:22 -0700, Mike Granby wrote:

southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions."

Mike,

You are PIC. I would have declared an emergency and squawked 7700.

Go to http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report_sets_nf.htm and download the .pdf
file weather encounters. Happens more frequently then I ever expected.

Allen

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
.. .

You are PIC. I would have declared an emergency and squawked 7700.


What would the emergency be?

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:28:20 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
.. .

You are PIC. I would have declared an emergency and squawked 7700.


What would the emergency be?

Putting me into a heading that weather may compromise my safety. I am
basing this on Mikes original post.

He had a storm scope in which he was able to somewhat verify the weather
improved. I don't have this.

Allen