Clearance with an Odd Intersection

Not at all unusual. You have to keep both the approach plate and low
altitude chart (or area chart) close at hand for reference.

Bob Gardner

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...
Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33 was
the active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else? Should they have told me it was only on an
IAP chart? Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?

Regards,
Marco Leon

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...

Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33 was
the active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else?


It's not unusual to use an approach fix at the destination airport.



Should they have told me it was only on an IAP chart?


Since you were landing there they probably assumed you were familiar with
the approaches.



Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?


If you're landing at that airport, yes.

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...

Had you queried the controller about the location of the intersection, he
would be able to give you coordinates.


Possibly, but not necessarily.

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in :

Now THAT makes sense. Is that a common thing with the air carriers?

Air carriers almost always use canned flight plans that never vary, and
they seldom file /G.

I file /G every time as a Part 135 pilot, and seldom to the same place, so
every flight plan is different, and the routes can be really weird,
especially the ones going offshore. If you have a GPS, then all you need
to do is pull the intersections up on it. The GPS doesn't care where the
waypoint is charted, it just knows where it is, and will take you there.
Another place to look for intersections, especially at or near your
destination, is on the STARs.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

Good advice. However, it's not always practical. As I learned early on in my
first few flights as a newly-minted IFR pilot, you ain't always going to get
what you file. Further more, you ain't always going to fly what you're
initially cleared for.

I've had plently of flights where my initial clearance didn't even remotely
resemble what I filed, and what I actually ended up flying didn't exactly
match the initial clearance. ATC has a interesting habit of dynamically
re-routing you based on traffic, weather, and how nice they're feeling that
day. Flexibility is certainly a key element of IFR flight (as is not
accepting a clearance that you're not comfortable with).

Being able to "re-route" in flight with the low-altitude chart in your lap
(or high-altitude, if you're lucky enough to fly such a beast) is a
necessary skill in IFR flying.

-- Dane

In article ,
wrote:
Here's some advice. Never launch on a clearance you have not
thoroughly reviewed for accuracy, fix by fix, right to the ground.

That way, you won't find yourself airborne reworking your clearance to
nowhere out with a controller (assuming your radio is working at the
time).

"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...

I've had plently of flights where my initial clearance didn't even
remotely
resemble what I filed, and what I actually ended up flying didn't exactly
match the initial clearance. ATC has a interesting habit of dynamically
re-routing you based on traffic, weather, and how nice they're feeling
that
day.


Traffic and weather are pretty good reasons for rerouting, moods are not.



Flexibility is certainly a key element of IFR flight (as is not
accepting a clearance that you're not comfortable with).


Sometimes you have to choose between being a bit uncomfortable and not
making the flight.

is MONDI on a SID ?
Information on fix MONDI
Name: MONDI
Identifier: MONDI
Location: 41-09-17.220N / 072-11-58.770W (NEW YORK)
ARTCC: ZBW
Fix to be published? yes
Navaid radial/DME: MAD /cgi-bin/navaid-info?a=MADr126.00
GON /cgi-bin/navaid-info?a=GONr226.45
HTO /cgi-bin/navaid-info?a=HTOr033.56
I-GON SW CRS/13.23
Charts: IAP
Fix use: Reporting point

if you don't under stand the clearance ask ? for clarification
try not to accept any clearance you don't understand
jon

At an airport with multiple approaches, it still seems cumbersome spread out
all the approach plates to understand an enroute clearance. One or two would
be fine but airports like KFRG with 5 or 6 doesn't strike me as logical
since the winds aren't (and can't be) taken into account.

Well, now I know and I appreciate the new knowledge.

Thanks Bob,

Marco


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Not at all unusual. You have to keep both the approach plate and low
altitude chart (or area chart) close at hand for reference.

Bob Gardner

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...
Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33
was the active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else? Should they have told me it was only on an
IAP chart? Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?

Regards,
Marco Leon







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"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...

Good advice. However, it's not always practical. As I learned early on in
my

I've had plently of flights where my initial clearance didn't even
remotely
resemble what I filed, and what I actually ended up flying didn't exactly
match the initial clearance.

If I made it from Boston to White Plains without getting re-routed at least
once I'd expect to see locusts, four horsemen, and dogs and cats living
together when I landed. You file the preferred routes, they clear you
somewhere else, and up in the air they change their minds again often more
than once in the flight.

-cwk.

Stan,
They may not file /G but all of our planes are equipped with GPS and use
it all the time. They are offered direct to a fix outside the rage of a
VOR and take it all the time.
Michelle (veteran of many jumpseat rides)

Stan Gosnell wrote:

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in :



Now THAT makes sense. Is that a common thing with the air carriers?



Air carriers almost always use canned flight plans that never vary, and
they seldom file /G.

I file /G every time as a Part 135 pilot, and seldom to the same place, so
every flight plan is different, and the routes can be really weird,
especially the ones going offshore. If you have a GPS, then all you need
to do is pull the intersections up on it. The GPS doesn't care where the
waypoint is charted, it just knows where it is, and will take you there.
Another place to look for intersections, especially at or near your
destination, is on the STARs.