If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be
finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/ifr/200807/1 |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
"Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote in message news:87d5dd402195d@uwe... I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/ifr/200807/1 This one I think is pretty straightforward. You may not accept or fly under an IFR clearance unless the plane and PIC are IFR current. Time of day, visibility, class of airspace do not play a part in this determination. You can file (for the practice of filing) but you cannot accept the clearance as PIC unless you are IFR current. Which raises the question "is the safety pilot PIC" if the pilot operating the controls with a vision restricting device is has not met the 6/6 requirement? You are VFR but operating under an IFR clearance for the purposes of the practice approaches. Who has legally accepted the approaches? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
Can you quote me the FAR that states this?? thanks ron
Howard wrote: I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] Thanks ron.. This one I think is pretty straightforward. You may not accept or fly under an IFR clearance unless the plane and PIC are IFR current. Time of day, visibility, class of airspace do not play a part in this determination. You can file (for the practice of filing) but you cannot accept the clearance as PIC unless you are IFR current. Which raises the question "is the safety pilot PIC" if the pilot operating the controls with a vision restricting device is has not met the 6/6 requirement? You are VFR but operating under an IFR clearance for the purposes of the practice approaches. Who has legally accepted the approaches? -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On 07/28/08 12:15, Howard wrote:
"Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote in message news:87d5dd402195d@uwe... I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/ifr/200807/1 This one I think is pretty straightforward. You may not accept or fly under an IFR clearance unless the plane and PIC are IFR current. Time of day, visibility, class of airspace do not play a part in this determination. You can file (for the practice of filing) but you cannot accept the clearance as PIC unless you are IFR current. Which raises the question "is the safety pilot PIC" if the pilot operating the controls with a vision restricting device is has not met the 6/6 requirement? You are VFR but operating under an IFR clearance for the purposes of the practice approaches. Who has legally accepted the approaches? You do not have to be under an IFR clearance to practice approaches. In fact, some controllers will say "Practice Approach Approved" rather than the normal "Cleared for the approach" to make this point clear. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
Mark Hansen wrote:
You do not have to be under an IFR clearance to practice approaches. In fact, some controllers will say "Practice Approach Approved" rather than the normal "Cleared for the approach" to make this point clear. That matches my experience. You're still VFR while flying IFR practice approaches. No separation or terrain warning is provided. My local guys usually say "Cleared for the ILS XX practice approach, remain VFR". Real requests for approach usually include the "Are you rated and equipped?" query if you're not arriving on an IFR plan. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
B A R R Y wrote:
You're still VFR while flying IFR practice approaches. No separation or terrain warning is provided. FAA policy is to provide separation to VFR aircraft while conducting practice instrument approaches where it is practical to do so. Generally, that means Class D airspace or higher with good radar coverage. Real requests for approach usually include the "Are you rated and equipped?" query if you're not arriving on an IFR plan. Shouldn't be. It is reasonable to assume the pilot is capable of the service he requests. There is a requirement to ask the pilot if he is qualified for and capable of conducting IFR flight when a VFR aircraft requests radar assistance when it encounters or is about to encounter IFR weather conditions. But in that case it's the controller that's suggesting IFR, not the pilot requesting it. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
B A R R Y wrote: You're still VFR while flying IFR practice approaches. No separation or terrain warning is provided. FAA policy is to provide separation to VFR aircraft while conducting practice instrument approaches where it is practical to do so. Generally, that means Class D airspace or higher with good radar coverage. It very well could be traffic volume, but I am often specifically told "no separation services..." by PVD and BDL during practice approaches. I appreciate the clarification as I hear it so often I thought it was SOP. Real requests for approach usually include the "Are you rated and equipped?" query if you're not arriving on an IFR plan. Shouldn't be. It is reasonable to assume the pilot is capable of the service he requests. There is a requirement to ask the pilot if he is qualified for and capable of conducting IFR flight when a VFR aircraft requests radar assistance when it encounters or is about to encounter IFR weather conditions. But in that case it's the controller that's suggesting IFR, not the pilot requesting it. That's what I'm talking about. A VFR aircraft arriving at an IFR airport, so it needs an IFR approach. This is very common on Cape Cod and the Islands. I hear Cape and Boston approach ask the question so often, my rarely flying pax even know what it means. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC - actual information
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
B A R R Y wrote: You're still VFR while flying IFR practice approaches. No separation or terrain warning is provided. FAA policy is to provide separation to VFR aircraft while conducting practice instrument approaches where it is practical to do so. Generally, that means Class D airspace or higher with good radar coverage. Some local data points. I flew three practice approaches tonight (7/29). #1 - LDA 2 into KHFD. BDL Approach specifically stated "remain VFR". HFD Tower called out so much traffic, I couldn't call my missed. None of the traffic was anything near IFR separation. #2 - ILS 5 to KGON. PVD Approach stated "Remain VFR, no traffic separation provided" KGON tower controller seemed pretty bored, I was the only thing around. #3 - VOR-A to KIJD. PVD Approach stated "Remain VFR, no traffic separation provided after ORW VOR." He did have me keep the squawk all the way to the airport, even after switching to CTAF. On the funny side... PVD was providing advisories to a guy who would launch into a 5 minute dissertation with each traffic call! G The guy narrated the current position in relation to his aircraft as the traffic passed. He would also keep coming back and update approach on the position once he passed it! Haven't heard that before! |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
In article ,
B A R R Y wrote: Mark Hansen wrote: You do not have to be under an IFR clearance to practice approaches. In fact, some controllers will say "Practice Approach Approved" rather than the normal "Cleared for the approach" to make this point clear. That matches my experience. You're still VFR while flying IFR practice approaches. No separation or terrain warning is provided. My local guys usually say "Cleared for the ILS XX practice approach, remain VFR". Real requests for approach usually include the "Are you rated and equipped?" query if you're not arriving on an IFR plan. Hmmm. 'Round here I don't think I've ever heard a controller ask that, and I've certainly never been asked it with any of the (fairly frequent) pop-up approach requests I've gotten because of the coastal stratus back into Oakland (KOAK) on flights that started VFR. Occasionally NorCal Approach will respond by asking me if I want a full clearance or just want a practice approach, which I usually interpret as the controller having a full plate and wondering whether it's really IMC out there and hinting I could get slotted in much easier if I did a practice approach.... Hamish |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On Jul 28, 4:17*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
You're still VFR while flying IFR practice approaches. *No separation or terrain warning is provided. Usually they will provide seperation. We have one airport that, even when VFR, the controller will say "no separation services provide, cleared for the ILS runway..." My local guys usually say "Cleared for the ILS XX practice approach, remain VFR". Which is odd because you are always VFR unless he issues you a claranace. I understand the meaning but its not technically correct. Real requests for approach usually include the "Are you rated and equipped?" query if you're not arriving on an IFR plan. I've never, ever been asked that in the US. Its customary in Mexico to ask that when picking up an IFR clearance (not sure what they would do if I said no ) -Robert |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Flight plan hell, Tales of filing an ADIZ flight plan | Michelle P | Piloting | 30 | July 15th 05 06:28 AM |
Vicinity Flight Filing Service | Darrel Toepfer | Home Built | 3 | May 12th 05 11:53 PM |
filing IFR plan for VFR flight conditions | Paul Safran | Instrument Flight Rules | 53 | May 11th 04 03:07 AM |
Flight Plan and Flight Log excel spreadsheet. | Marco Rispoli | Piloting | 2 | January 14th 04 09:12 PM |
IFR flight plan filing question | Tune2828 | Instrument Flight Rules | 2 | July 23rd 03 03:33 AM |