IFR then VFR back to KPAO

Here's a kinda stupid question for SF Bay Area pilots.

Today is a nice day for some practice approaches in actual. We've got
ceilings in the 1800-2000 level, stratus, no precip or wind, generally
benign.

Okay, so I thought I'd head over from PAO and log some approaches at
the usual suspects: KLVK, KSCK, KTCY, maybe KOAK.

Thing is, getting back to PAO. There's no GPS in the A/C I fly so the
GPS-31 at PAO is out. Similarly, asking for the VOR/DME-31 seems to
result in endless, endless vectoring over San Jose.

So the best way to get back to PAO is VFR. Okay, but say I'm on an IFR
flight plan, coming over the Sunol Pass at 3000 or 4000 ft (in IMC or
on top). It's good VFR at 1500 ft. How do I get down there? They won't
give me an IFR descent to that low. It seems like the trans-bay scud
run is the right way to get back to PAO, but how to get down?

Of course, the problem is the 2500 ft or so needed to clear the Sunol
Pass. If not for that, after my last approach on the other side I's
just cancel and head over VFR.

Any advice?

Dave J

-- jacobowitz73 --at-- yahoo --dot-- com

Okay, it's generally considered bad form to follow up your own post,
but looking at things, it looks like an approach to HWD or SJC,
followed by cancelling and proceeding VFR to PAO would work.

-- dj

DJ,
I never scud run in bad weather over a route that I have not 'surveyed' in
good weather. Every route has its limitations.
The Carqunez Straits have orange balls on the wires now but
You should know that above all the wires you can see by about
ten feet is another wire you won't see in time to miss it. Fly over
the towers ONLY. Fly your SVFR routes in good conditions to take the stress
out of doing it when weather is poor.

The absolute lowest route could well be by way of Susun
Bay. Never fly along the shoreline of a river used by large ships.
600' towers live there. The valley into Hayward from Dublin has
a power line. Don't fly it until you have flown over it's towers to
find your MSA (Minimum Safe Altitude)

Go from Benicia to Vallejo via freeway and then use your radio to
get through Oakland's airspace SVFR if you must. 600' will do it.

Watch out for errors in ATC instructions. Once I was told to fly
to the middle of the San Mateo Bridge enroute to PAO. My
early experience in Florida during the war taught me that a causeway was not
a bridge. I took three heads-up calls by me to get ATC
to realize that they were vectoring me right into SFO final approach
corridor which is over a bridge that has a long causeway to the west.

Use good weather as an opportunity to determine your MSA both for weather
and night. Hardly a year goes by that some high-time
pilot in the Bay Area gets down to get under when he should'nt.
Gene Whitt

Never fly along the shoreline of a river used by large ships.
600' towers live there.

What towers are these? Are you referring to the masts? (Even the
original Queen Mary is only three hundred and something)

Or are you referring to the supports for wires and bridges to cross the
river high enough to let the ship pass?

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

wrote:
Okay, so I thought I'd head over from PAO and log some approaches at
the usual suspects: KLVK, KSCK, KTCY, maybe KOAK.

Thing is, getting back to PAO. There's no GPS in the A/C I fly so the
GPS-31 at PAO is out. Similarly, asking for the VOR/DME-31 seems to
result in endless, endless vectoring over San Jose.


When I visited the Norcal TRACON facility last year, their advice
for getting the PAO VOR/DME-31 approach was to prefile. Asking for
this approach as a pop-up pretty much guarantees 45-60 minutes of
vectoring and/or holding. So I would suggest before departure, pick
one of the outlying airports, and prefile IFR from there to PAO.
After your practice approaches, land and open your prefiled IFR flight
plan.

Alternatively, you could ask for the Moffet ILS approach, then go
VFR or SVFR to PAO.

How do you get this approach? Isn't Moffet restricted without prior
permission to GA? I'd love to use that technique instead of shotting
the HWC LOC and going low over the bay...

Ross Oliver wrote:
Alternatively, you could ask for the Moffet ILS approach, then go
VFR or SVFR to PAO.

Yeah! There's a Moffet ILS approach? It's not in the regular charts.
Maybe in some military addendum? Are those flyable by civilians like
us? I'm pretty sure landing is out of the question, but if we could use
the approach, that would be perfect!

-- dave j

max wrote:
How do you get this approach? Isn't Moffet restricted without prior
permission to GA? I'd love to use that technique instead of shotting
the HWC LOC and going low over the bay...

Ross Oliver wrote:
Alternatively, you could ask for the Moffet ILS approach, then go
VFR or SVFR to PAO.

Taking a look at the airnav entry for Moffett (www.airnav.com/airport/KNUQ),
there is a published ILS RW 32R approach:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/00410I32R.PDF

This should be in the SW-2 (20 Jan 2005) approach plates (which I don't
have physically in front of me right now to verify).

-- Dane

In article .com,
wrote:

Yeah! There's a Moffet ILS approach? It's not in the regular charts.
Maybe in some military addendum? Are those flyable by civilians like
us? I'm pretty sure landing is out of the question, but if we could use
the approach, that would be perfect!

-- dave j

max wrote:
How do you get this approach? Isn't Moffet restricted without prior
permission to GA? I'd love to use that technique instead of shotting
the HWC LOC and going low over the bay...

Ross Oliver wrote:
Alternatively, you could ask for the Moffet ILS approach, then go
VFR or SVFR to PAO.

Dave,
You can find & download the approaches for Moffett (KNUQ) at Airnav.com but
that site *currently* references the last update cycle (0501 - 20 Jan 05).
To ensure you get the chart from the current cycle (0502 - 17 Feb 05), check
the source: https://164.214.2.62/products/digita...ndex.cfm#term2

(Granted, the chart may not have changed since the 0501 cycle but it's
always best to check the fine print along the chart's margin just to be sure
you're looking at the current info.)

wrote in message
oups.com...

Yeah! There's a Moffet ILS approach? It's not in the regular charts.
Maybe in some military addendum? Are those flyable by civilians like
us? I'm pretty sure landing is out of the question, but if we could use
the approach, that would be perfect!

-- dave j

max wrote:
How do you get this approach? Isn't Moffet restricted without prior
permission to GA? I'd love to use that technique instead of shotting
the HWC LOC and going low over the bay...

Ross Oliver wrote:
Alternatively, you could ask for the Moffet ILS approach, then go
VFR or SVFR to PAO.

It is my opinion that by shooting this approach, you are opening
yourself up to a possible violation. Let me explain... take a look at
the missed approach procedure for this IAP. You will note that it
requires you to track direct a TACAN, then a radial out of it to an
intersection. I believe if they wanted to, a fed could easily give you
a violation for not having the appropriate equipment for the approach.

Lynne

Dane Spearing wrote:
Taking a look at the airnav entry for Moffett
(www.airnav.com/airport/KNUQ),
there is a published ILS RW 32R approach:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/00410I32R.PDF

This should be in the SW-2 (20 Jan 2005) approach plates (which I
don't
have physically in front of me right now to verify).

-- Dane