Non existent VOR

From AIM 5-1-1 paragraph D:

d. FSSs are required to advise of pertinent NOTAMs if a standard briefing is
requested, but if they are overlooked, don't hesitate to remind the
specialist that you have not received NOTAM information.

NOTE-
NOTAMs which are known in sufficient time for publication and are of 7 days
duration or longer are normally incorporated into the Notices to Airmen
Publication and carried there until cancellation time. FDC NOTAMs, which
apply to instrument flight procedures, are also included in the Notices to
Airmen Publication up to and including the number indicated in the FDC NOTAM
legend. Printed NOTAMs are not provided during a briefing unless
specifically requested by the pilot since the FSS specialist has no way of
knowing whether the pilot has already checked the Notices to Airmen
Publication prior to calling. Remember to ask for NOTAMs in the Notices to
Airmen Publication. This information is not normally furnished during your
briefing.

REFERENCE-
AIM, Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) System, Paragraph 5-1-3.

Therefore, you have to specifically ask for the printed NOTAMs
when talking to a flight briefer. DUATs briefings DO include the
printed NOTAMs in every case I've checked.

Ronnie

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 01:19:46 GMT, john smith wrote:

How did you brief your flight?

Live briefing from Macon FSS.

I would certainly let them know that they blew this one.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Michelle wrote:
john smith wrote:

There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
(IFR and Sectionals).
Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
This one gets a NASA Form 277.


It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS

john smith wrote:
How did you brief your flight?


Live briefing from Macon FSS.

....more validation for my policy of avoiding this type of briefing whenever
possible.

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1144074189.245618@sj-nntpcache-5...

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS


Okay, he didn't get a stellar briefing, but that doesn't alter the fact that
he was assigned the route over PHK by JAX ARTCC. They should have known
better.

that doesn't alter the fact that
he was assigned the route over PHK by JAX ARTCC.

Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:


Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?

No. Give the FAA time, they're new to this GPS stuff. They just
recently stopped notaming an ILS OTS when the DME would be taken out of
service and that DME was listed on the plate as required. They just
figured out that most people aren't using DME.

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..

Did he have GPS?


I don't think so. He didn't mention GPS and he said he had not been
receiving any signal from PHK on his nav receiver.



Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the aircraft
can still navigate it?


Yes, if the aircraft is /E, /F, /G, or /R.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?


No. Give the FAA time, they're new to this GPS stuff. They just recently
stopped notaming an ILS OTS when the DME would be taken out of service and
that DME was listed on the plate as required. They just figured out that
most people aren't using DME.


FAA Order 7110.65R

Air Traffic Control

Chapter 4. IFR

Section 4. Route Assignment

4-4-4. ALTERNATIVE ROUTES

When any part of an airway or route is unusable because of NAVAID status,
clear aircraft other than /E, /F, /G, or /R, via one of the following
alternative routes:

a. A route depicted on current U.S. Government charts/publications. Use the
word "substitute" immediately preceding the alternative route in issuing the
clearance.

b. A route defined by specifying NAVAID radials, courses, or azimuths.

c. A route defined as direct to or between NAVAIDs.

d. Vectors.

NOTE-
Inform area navigation aircraft that will proceed to the NAVAID location of
the NAVAID outage.

Did he have GPS?

I don't think so. He didn't mention GPS and he said he had not been
receiving any signal from PHK on his nav receiver.

I had a Garmin GPS 195 portable and a King KLN 89A in the panel with an
out of date database. I did not file any remarks indicating that I had
area nav on board.

Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the aircraft
can still navigate it?

Yes, if the aircraft is /E, /F, /G, or /R.

I filed /A

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1144074189.245618@sj-nntpcache-5...
Michelle wrote:
john smith wrote:

There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
(IFR and Sectionals).
Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
This one gets a NASA Form 277.


It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS


I'm late in joining this thread, but on an Angel Flight a year or so ago, I
was happily moving along my IFR flight plan following airways when IND
approach told my the Hoosier VOR was OTS. I was never told that during my
briefing. 3 seconds after an "uhh... stand by" on my part, IND offered
vector direct to my next VOR. Duh. D - next waypoint & we're off. Actually
shaved a few minutes off, anyway.
It did kind of surprise me, though.