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#1
October 21st 04, 10:21 PM
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wonders of VFR on top
The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away. He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though my intention was to cancel on top. The controller than mentioned that he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something. -Robert 
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#2
October 21st 04, 10:23 PM
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#3
October 22nd 04, 05:21 AM
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zatatime wrote in message . ..
On 21 Oct 2004 14:21:35 -0700, (Robert M. Gary) wrote: The controller than mentioned that he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something. What did you do? Get a clearance to a fix within his sector? Details would be appreciated. He actually issued the clearance all the way to my dest. However, it was a climb maintain...if not on top by... to VFR on top clearance. Apparently if he didn't do the VFR on top in the clearance he would have to wait for the clearance. -Robert
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#4
October 22nd 04, 05:33 AM
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"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message om... zatatime wrote in message . .. On 21 Oct 2004 14:21:35 -0700, (Robert M. Gary) wrote: The controller than mentioned that he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something. What did you do? Get a clearance to a fix within his sector? Details would be appreciated. He actually issued the clearance all the way to my dest. However, it was a climb maintain...if not on top by... to VFR on top clearance. Apparently if he didn't do the VFR on top in the clearance he would have to wait for the clearance. I thought that VFR ON TOP was a segment of an IFR flight plan where you maintain VFR cruise altitudes and visual separation until you resume IFR altitudes and IFR separation as needed by weather or for arrival. Here on the California coast were stratus can force an IFR departure to about 2000ft I ask for an "IFR departure for climb to VFR conditions" with a clearance from my field to a VOR about 20NM away. Well before I am more than 5 miles from my departure I am above the fog and can cancel IFR and ask for VFR flight following. Howard C182P --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004
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#5
October 22nd 04, 01:11 PM
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"Howard Nelson" wrote in message . com... He actually issued the clearance all the way to my dest. However, it was a climb maintain...if not on top by... to VFR on top clearance. Apparently if he didn't do the VFR on top in the clearance he would have to wait for the clearance. I thought that VFR ON TOP was a segment of an IFR flight plan where you maintain VFR cruise altitudes and visual separation until you resume IFR altitudes and IFR separation as needed by weather or for arrival. It is. Here on the California coast were stratus can force an IFR departure to about 2000ft I ask for an "IFR departure for climb to VFR conditions" with a clearance from my field to a VOR about 20NM away. Well before I am more than 5 miles from my departure I am above the fog and can cancel IFR and ask for VFR flight following. In my experience, that's what most people are looking for when they request VFR-on-top. They're issued the whole "climb to and report reaching VFR-on-top, no tops reports, if not on top at 4000 maintain 4000 and advise" in lieu of a hard IFR altitude. They depart, climb through the clouds, cancel IFR, and proceed on their merry way without having operated VFR-on-top at all.
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#6
October 22nd 04, 04:06 PM
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In my experience, that's what most people are looking for when they request VFR-on-top. They're issued the whole "climb to and report reaching VFR-on-top, no tops reports, if not on top at 4000 maintain 4000 and advise" in lieu of a hard IFR altitude. They depart, climb through the clouds, cancel IFR, and proceed on their merry way without having operated VFR-on-top at all. Actually our local controllers (if sierra approach can be called local) are pretty much on top of this since what they issue is: "Cleared to xxxx via xxx departure. Climb to and maintain xxxx. If not in VFR conditions by xxxxx maintain xxxxx and report." No VFR ON TOP in their clearances. Howard --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004
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#7
October 22nd 04, 04:38 PM
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"Howard Nelson" wrote in message .com...
Here on the California coast were stratus can force an IFR departure to about 2000ft I ask for an "IFR departure for climb to VFR conditions" with a clearance from my field to a VOR about 20NM away. Well before I am more than 5 miles from my departure I am above the fog and can cancel IFR and ask for VFR flight following. Howard C182P That's the exact same thing. The phrase you used is the same as an IFR clearance up "to VFR on top". I live in the Sacramento valley and we get the same fog you get, but just in the winter rather than the summer. -Robert
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#8
October 22nd 04, 07:34 PM
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"Howard Nelson" wrote in message .com...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message Here on the California coast were stratus can force an IFR departure to about 2000ft I ask for an "IFR departure for climb to VFR conditions" with a clearance from my field to a VOR about 20NM away. Well before I am more than 5 miles from my departure I am above the fog and can cancel IFR and ask for VFR flight following. Howard C182P I've done the same. Unfortuntely he said he could not issue a clearance unless it was to my dest. Perhaps I could have change my dest to some place local but that would have seemed strange when asking to climb from 2,000 feet to 5,000 feet. Perhaps it had something to do with the class B in the area. -Robert
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#9
October 22nd 04, 01:04 PM
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"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message om... What did you do? Get a clearance to a fix within his sector? Details would be appreciated. He actually issued the clearance all the way to my dest. However, it was a climb maintain...if not on top by... to VFR on top clearance. Apparently if he didn't do the VFR on top in the clearance he would have to wait for the clearance. And if you were not on top by the specified altitude, you'd have a normal IFR clearance to your destination at that altitude, something he said he couldn't do.
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#10
October 21st 04, 11:07 PM
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If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you were
going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get on top you cancel. Robert M. Gary wrote: The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away. He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though my intention was to cancel on top. The controller than mentioned that he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something. -Robert
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