NavAir CWO graduates first class

Thanks for the explanation(s); had forgotten about there being the W-1,
W-2, etc.

Am I to understand that an ALDO can not go above LT? Can any LDO,
regardless the specility, go above LT?


fudog50 wrote:
Mike,

Trying to be as respectful and tactful as I can, hopefully this
answers those 2 questions:

1.) I was permanantly commissioned the day I swore the oath, as are
the rest of my CWO brothers and sisters. LDO's are not permanant
commissioned until after thier second year as a LT, (6 years
commissioned). They are asked at that point if they want to go
permanant, if not they revert back to enlisted or can go home. By the
way CWO's can NOT revert back because of the fact they are permanantly
commissioned from day 1.

*that "non-commissioned" comment smells like Army,

2.) I got the payscale sitting right here. Next year ( July 07) as a
CWO4 I make 6220 base pay, after 8 years commissioned. A LT LDO (same
8 years commissioned) tops out at 5715. 0-4's make 6250, so they make
30 bucks more, wow. However, a CWO5 after 12 years commissioned makes
6850. So they lose money by making ACWO's vice ALDO's. Look at 2007
payscale and see for yourself.

Compare CWO2 to O1E with over 8 its the same advantage for CWO. Also
CWO3 to 02E, CWO's simply make more money with the same amount of
years commissioned, with one exception. It takes only 2 years for an
ENS to make JG and 3 years from CWO2 to CWO3, so for that 1 year
period, the LDO makes more. After that its all over except the crying!



Its simply a bad idea, no one yet has convinced any of my fellow
LDO/CWO's otherwise. Sure there are some good points, but again the
bad far outweighs them!

Anyway they should start these guys out as W-1's like Army,(simply a
warrant officer, NOT a Chief Warrant Officer. That would fix a lot of
the whole problems.

For example, not to many sane persons would go from Chief to W-1.
Thats why the Navy has no W-1. You go from Cheif to CWO2. This new
program allows a dozen or so E-5 or E-6 straight to CWO2!!!


On 6 Dec 2006 12:39:24 -0800, "Mike Weeks" wrote:


fudog50 wrote:
Sorry I forgot on my last winded reply:

The Navy already had a prgram like this in the past it was called,
ALDO, (Aviator Limited Duty Officer)

God only knows why the higher ups didn't just resurrect this program!

You would be drawing from the same pool of highly motivated, smart
people and wouldn't have to completly bypass the entire CWO career
path the rest of us have gone through and will continue to do.

Could it be due to the ALDO being commissioned, and the CWO is not?
Don't have to pay as much for example? It's almost as if they brought
back the NAPs (flying Chief's), just give them the CWO rate instead as
well as limited type flying-only duty. Again, just a question.

Am I to understand that an ALDO can not go above LT? Can any LDO,
regardless the specility, go above LT?


Yes, they can. Our Maintenance Officer (LDO-type) was an O-5 / CDR.

Just to clarify, there is no such thing as an ALDO anymore, they
stopped that program in the late 80's.

And yes, LDO's can go up to Admiral, we finally got one last year.

There are all kinds of Captain LDO SWO's, Aviation types, Blackshoes,
etc. Most communities have at least one 0-6 LDO, some have a handfull.

Navy just started CWO5 3 years ago and the end strength I think right
now is about 70.

Marine Corps has had CWO5 for some time.


On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:44:59 GMT, "M. B." wrote:


Am I to understand that an ALDO can not go above LT? Can any LDO,
regardless the specility, go above LT?


Yes, they can. Our Maintenance Officer (LDO-type) was an O-5 / CDR.

Mike Weeks wrote:
fudog50 wrote:
Sorry I forgot on my last winded reply:

The Navy already had a prgram like this in the past it was called,
ALDO, (Aviator Limited Duty Officer)

God only knows why the higher ups didn't just resurrect this program!

You would be drawing from the same pool of highly motivated, smart
people and wouldn't have to completly bypass the entire CWO career
path the rest of us have gone through and will continue to do.

Could it be due to the ALDO being commissioned, and the CWO is not?

Warrants are commissioned officers...


Don't have to pay as much for example? It's almost as if they brought
back the NAPs (flying Chief's), just give them the CWO rate instead as
well as limited type flying-only duty. Again, just a question.

'Worked' for a Master Chief when I was a brand new O-4, Red Larson, not
a finer CPO in existence at the time in my experience. He was so good,
I asked him about becoming an LDO...trade 'Master Chief' for O-1/2 or
whatever and he laughed at me...He 'splained' why, why trade going from
the top to one of the herd....

fudog50 wrote:
Mike,

Trying to be as respectful and tactful as I can, hopefully this
answers those 2 questions:

1.) I was permanantly commissioned the day I swore the oath, as are
the rest of my CWO brothers and sisters. LDO's are not permanant
commissioned until after thier second year as a LT, (6 years
commissioned). They are asked at that point if they want to go
permanant, if not they revert back to enlisted or can go home. By the
way CWO's can NOT revert back because of the fact they are permanantly
commissioned from day 1.

*that "non-commissioned" comment smells like Army,

2.) I got the payscale sitting right here. Next year ( July 07) as a
CWO4 I make 6220 base pay, after 8 years commissioned. A LT LDO (same
8 years commissioned) tops out at 5715. 0-4's make 6250, so they make
30 bucks more, wow. However, a CWO5 after 12 years commissioned makes
6850. So they lose money by making ACWO's vice ALDO's. Look at 2007
payscale and see for yourself.

Compare CWO2 to O1E with over 8 its the same advantage for CWO. Also
CWO3 to 02E, CWO's simply make more money with the same amount of
years commissioned, with one exception. It takes only 2 years for an
ENS to make JG and 3 years from CWO2 to CWO3, so for that 1 year
period, the LDO makes more. After that its all over except the crying!



Its simply a bad idea, no one yet has convinced any of my fellow
LDO/CWO's otherwise. Sure there are some good points, but again the
bad far outweighs them!

Anyway they should start these guys out as W-1's like Army,(simply a
warrant officer, NOT a Chief Warrant Officer. That would fix a lot of
the whole problems.

For example, not to many sane persons would go from Chief to W-1.
Thats why the Navy has no W-1. You go from Cheif to CWO2. This new
program allows a dozen or so E-5 or E-6 straight to CWO2!!!


On 6 Dec 2006 12:39:24 -0800, "Mike Weeks" wrote:


fudog50 wrote:
Sorry I forgot on my last winded reply:

The Navy already had a prgram like this in the past it was called,
ALDO, (Aviator Limited Duty Officer)

God only knows why the higher ups didn't just resurrect this program!

You would be drawing from the same pool of highly motivated, smart
people and wouldn't have to completly bypass the entire CWO career
path the rest of us have gone through and will continue to do.

Could it be due to the ALDO being commissioned, and the CWO is not?
Don't have to pay as much for example? It's almost as if they brought
back the NAPs (flying Chief's), just give them the CWO rate instead as
well as limited type flying-only duty. Again, just a question.

wrote in message...

Warrants are commissioned officers...

....except for the Army WO1.

fudog50 wrote:
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as an ALDO anymore, they
stopped that program in the late 80's.

And yes, LDO's can go up to Admiral, we finally got one last year.

There are all kinds of Captain LDO SWO's, Aviation types, Blackshoes,
etc. Most communities have at least one 0-6 LDO, some have a handfull.

Navy just started CWO5 3 years ago and the end strength I think right
now is about 70.

Marine Corps has had CWO5 for some time.


On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:44:59 GMT, "M. B." wrote:

Am I to understand that an ALDO can not go above LT? Can any LDO,
regardless the specility, go above LT?

Yes, they can. Our Maintenance Officer (LDO-type) was an O-5 / CDR.


Any listings of the O6 and above LDO's? Or former LDO's if they
augmented.

John Weiss wrote:
wrote in message...

Warrants are commissioned officers...

...except for the Army WO1.

Sing along now....I was ...."in the Navy".....USN doesn't have a WO1,
correct??

I think the warrant program in the USN, where you commission really
good senior CPOs, and then they continue to work in their area of
expertise, like as branch or division officers, is a great idea. Our
'Gunner', AO branch officer, in all the squadrons I was in, is a prime
example.

wrote...

Warrants are commissioned officers...

...except for the Army WO1.

Sing along now....I was ...."in the Navy".....USN doesn't have a WO1,
correct??

As I was...

You are correct: Only the Army uses the WO1 rank. However, there are a few
Army guys roaming around here, and the discussion of flying WOs will always
get around to the Army way of doing things... :-)


I think the warrant program in the USN, where you commission really
good senior CPOs, and then they continue to work in their area of
expertise, like as branch or division officers, is a great idea. Our
'Gunner', AO branch officer, in all the squadrons I was in, is a prime
example.

I agree that the WO/LDO programs are good ones. I still can't quite figure
out why the Navy continues with both, though. It seems to me that either
one serves the purpose in the Navy. The Air Force eliminated the WO program
a while back, and the Army uses it in a different, specific manner that
suits their goals (e.g., of getting Helo pilots right out of high school).

I might even propose a change to the program so that the WO program
completely replaces the LDO program through O4, and allows a shift to an LDO
or EDO track at the O5 level (e.g., WO5 to O5) for those who "screen" for
high-level billets like AIMD Officer and other significant "commands."

Interesting! For you not so old salts the Navy Warrant Officers were
supposed to be replaced by Senior and Master Chiefs in the early 60s.
For some reason it never happened. And correct me if I'm wrong, it's
been a long time, weren't WO2s and 3s non-commissioned?

Walt

On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:43:37 -0800, "John Weiss"
jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote:

wrote...

Warrants are commissioned officers...

...except for the Army WO1.

Sing along now....I was ...."in the Navy".....USN doesn't have a WO1,
correct??

As I was...

You are correct: Only the Army uses the WO1 rank. However, there are a few
Army guys roaming around here, and the discussion of flying WOs will always
get around to the Army way of doing things... :-)


I think the warrant program in the USN, where you commission really
good senior CPOs, and then they continue to work in their area of
expertise, like as branch or division officers, is a great idea. Our
'Gunner', AO branch officer, in all the squadrons I was in, is a prime
example.

I agree that the WO/LDO programs are good ones. I still can't quite figure
out why the Navy continues with both, though. It seems to me that either
one serves the purpose in the Navy. The Air Force eliminated the WO program
a while back, and the Army uses it in a different, specific manner that
suits their goals (e.g., of getting Helo pilots right out of high school).

I might even propose a change to the program so that the WO program
completely replaces the LDO program through O4, and allows a shift to an LDO
or EDO track at the O5 level (e.g., WO5 to O5) for those who "screen" for
high-level billets like AIMD Officer and other significant "commands."



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