I am NOT superstitious

Paul Tomblin wrote:

Our club's Lance has a Loran in it that as far as I know, only one person
ever used. And I'm not too sure about him because he always complained
that it couldn't lock on "if somebody flew the plane without turning it
on". Yeah, I laughed when I read that too.

Don't laugh. He's only missing one step in there. If you turn the LORAN off,
fly the plane more than a few miles, and turn it back on again at a different
location, it won't lock in. All it would take is for somebody to take the plane,
fly a bit, notice the LORAN is on and turn it off, then return to base. My
Foster unit has been known to do this after having been moved as little as
twenty miles, but it usually takes more than that.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

In a previous article, said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:

Our club's Lance has a Loran in it that as far as I know, only one person
ever used. And I'm not too sure about him because he always complained
that it couldn't lock on "if somebody flew the plane without turning it
on". Yeah, I laughed when I read that too.

Don't laugh. He's only missing one step in there. If you turn the LORAN off,
fly the plane more than a few miles, and turn it back on again at a different
location, it won't lock in. All it would take is for somebody to take the plane,

It couldn't lock on AT ALL? Or it would take a little while? I thought
LORAN was an absolute positioner (like GPS) not just a relative positioner
like INS.

Are you going to tell me that all those LORANs in people's boats have to
be on all the time the boat is being trailered?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"It's free they say, if you can get it to run, the geeks say `hey, that's half
the fun', but I've got a girlfriend and things to get done, the Linux OS sucks"
- Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://www.deadtroll.com/

Paul Tomblin wrote:

It couldn't lock on AT ALL? Or it would take a little while? I thought
LORAN was an absolute positioner (like GPS) not just a relative positioner
like INS.

It won't lock on at all - it has to be initialized (you have to input the
latitude and longitude).

Are you going to tell me that all those LORANs in people's boats have to
be on all the time the boat is being trailered?

I don't know about boats, but that would not be the case with aircraft, either.
I can cut my LORAN off, fly from 3N6 to anywhere, return to 3N6, and the LORAN
will work fine when I cut it back on again. What I *can't* do is cut it off,
fly from 3N6 to, say, FDK, turn the LORAN on and expect it to lock in.

The problem is that the LORAN determines your position by timing signals from
three transmitters. This group of transmitters is called a "chain". The box
can figure out, for example, that you are 30 miles from transmitter #1, 35 from
#2, and 15 from #3. The problem is that there are two places on Earth that are
these distances from those transmitters. If you happen to be very close to the
last place you shut down when you turn the box on, it figures that you haven't
moved.

If you moved the plane since you shut the LORAN down, it won't know which of
those two positions to use when you turn it back on. If you are at a location
at which any two of the transmitters are nearly in line, you don't have to move
the box far to confuse it.

There's also usually a battery on the board to allow the LORAN to remember where
you were the last time you turned it off. My LORAN will not work at all if this
battery dies.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

Famous last words. I said that last summer after my overhaul, and then spent
the fall chasing a carb problem (which Penn Yann only covered for what they felt
was a reasonable troubleshooting time, about 60% of what it cost me). Now BOTH
vacuum gyros are getting hinky, and the strikefinder is finding my transponder
several hundred times a minute. *SIGH* it's only money.

Jay Honeck wrote:

It's been nice knowing you. Obviously with all that stuff working, you're
going to be so busy admiring your panel that you're going to CFIT.

Nonsense! I've now replaced absolutely everything that could or should EVER
break! There's absolutely nothing left to go wrong!

What could possibly go xz;lja[97uf90ause9-r qw9-tu8gnerfiohndv/k n ?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Hey, my Foster does that too! You can reinitialize it in the air, but it requires
you to enter the lat-lon from the GPS (well, sectionals work too), wearing a
ceremonial robe, a couple of magic incantations, and a plastic Jesus on the
glareshield to make it happen. You'd better have a second set of eyes to look for
traffic while you are doing it too. Flying through a thunderstorm can also make it
lose its position (don't ask me how I know).

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:


Don't laugh. He's only missing one step in there. If you turn the LORAN off,
fly the plane more than a few miles, and turn it back on again at a different
location, it won't lock in. All it would take is for somebody to take the plane,
fly a bit, notice the LORAN is on and turn it off, then return to base. My
Foster unit has been known to do this after having been moved as little as
twenty miles, but it usually takes more than that.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

A little birdie told me that battery can be replaced in about 20 minutes with a
little bit of laying on of the hands, and a hot soldering iron. He also told me
that digikey has the exact replacement battery. 3N6 holds a special place in my
heart. It is where I met my metal mistress. Mine usually will find itself after
being moved with power off, but can take upwards of 5 minutes, as long as it is far
from one of the two chain loci. I had lots of problems with it when I took it down
to New Mexico though, because it didn't have the mid continent chain. I've since
replaced it with a later serial number one that has it. For now, I'm keeping it
since it is hooked into my autopilot.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

Paul Tomblin wrote:

It couldn't lock on AT ALL? Or it would take a little while? I thought
LORAN was an absolute positioner (like GPS) not just a relative positioner
like INS.

It won't lock on at all - it has to be initialized (you have to input the
latitude and longitude).

Are you going to tell me that all those LORANs in people's boats have to
be on all the time the boat is being trailered?

I don't know about boats, but that would not be the case with aircraft, either.
I can cut my LORAN off, fly from 3N6 to anywhere, return to 3N6, and the LORAN
will work fine when I cut it back on again. What I *can't* do is cut it off,
fly from 3N6 to, say, FDK, turn the LORAN on and expect it to lock in.

The problem is that the LORAN determines your position by timing signals from
three transmitters. This group of transmitters is called a "chain". The box
can figure out, for example, that you are 30 miles from transmitter #1, 35 from
#2, and 15 from #3. The problem is that there are two places on Earth that are
these distances from those transmitters. If you happen to be very close to the
last place you shut down when you turn the box on, it figures that you haven't
moved.

If you moved the plane since you shut the LORAN down, it won't know which of
those two positions to use when you turn it back on. If you are at a location
at which any two of the transmitters are nearly in line, you don't have to move
the box far to confuse it.

There's also usually a battery on the board to allow the LORAN to remember where
you were the last time you turned it off. My LORAN will not work at all if this
battery dies.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Famous last words. I said that last summer after my overhaul, and then
spent
the fall chasing a carb problem (which Penn Yann only covered for what
they felt
was a reasonable troubleshooting time, about 60% of what it cost me).

What you describe is one major reason why I decided to have our O-540
rebuilt locally.

Any problems -- and there have been none in the year since it was done,
knock on nickel cadmium -- could be corrected immediately by the shop.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

(Ben Jackson) wrote in message news:KxM0c.156475$jk2.596429@attbi_s53...
In article DtL0c.11396$ko6.199028@attbi_s02,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Yesterday, for the first time since I bought Atlas in 2002, EVERYTHING in
the panel worked as designed all at the same time!

None of it is Narco, obviously.

Dan

In article ,
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

It won't lock on at all - it has to be initialized (you have to input the
latitude and longitude).

Heh, this started as a joke about my broken LORAN and ends with a hint
about how to get it working. I read the manual and printed the quickref
but I only remember setup involving the GRI (which I have tried enough
times I have the Pacific Northwest GRI memorized -- 9940!).

Perhaps the little battery is dead.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

None of it is Narco, obviously.

Actually, the audio panel, both VORs, both COMS, and the DME are ALL Narco.

I really don't know what everyone bitches about them for -- they've worked
well for me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"