Low fuel emergency in DFW

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:43:30 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote:

But even if you reply in the negative, if might
still be an emergency. You and ATC just might not know it yet. :-)


I agree, so I reserve the right to change my mind!

BTW...

Does anyone remember "Emily" complaining about how hard it was to talk
to DFW ATC? G

C J Campbell wrote:
If you say you have runaway trim, a
hijacker, or a large flying octopus that has covered your entire
windshield, it is an emergency, whether you 'declare' one or not.

If it's a giant squid instead of an octopus would it still be an emergency?
How about a monster in the aft circuitry room?

I've seen those kinds of things on the old TV series "Voyage to the Bottom
of the Sea" and I can't remember if they ever declared an emergency. Of
course their altitude was rather low at the time. As I recal, their vehicle
had canards on the front but rather small stubby wings; here's a picture of
them at takeoff:

http://www.omenaheights.com/voyage_b...sea_breach.jpg

(I suppose the kinds of emergencies experienced on that show now explains
why aircraft don't have circuitry rooms and composite hull construction has
never been popular. If you have to dislodge the giant octopus/squid/monster
attached to the hull, there's nothing like running 100,000V through the
hull. But that's not so easy to do if the hull is an electrical insulator.)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:46:15 -0800, B A R R Y wrote
(in article ):

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:43:30 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote:

But even if you reply in the negative, if might
still be an emergency. You and ATC just might not know it yet. :-)


I agree, so I reserve the right to change my mind!

Maybe Steve can elucidate what it means when ATC asks you if you would like
to declare an emergency and what happens when you do. I think at least part
of it is calling out the emergency equipment on the ground.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...

The controllers I've met would probably agree.

But then again, they're also pilots, as I believe you are.



I are.


You is? :-)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:06:40 -0800, Jim Logajan wrote
(in article ):

C J Campbell wrote:
If you say you have runaway trim, a
hijacker, or a large flying octopus that has covered your entire
windshield, it is an emergency, whether you 'declare' one or not.

If it's a giant squid instead of an octopus would it still be an emergency?
How about a monster in the aft circuitry room?


Or even something nasty in the woodshed? ("I saw something nasty in the
woodshed." -- Ada Doom in "Cold Comfort Farm")

I've seen those kinds of things on the old TV series "Voyage to the Bottom
of the Sea" and I can't remember if they ever declared an emergency. Of
course their altitude was rather low at the time. As I recal, their vehicle
had canards on the front but rather small stubby wings; here's a picture of
them at takeoff:

http://www.omenaheights.com/voyage_b...sea_breach.jpg

(I suppose the kinds of emergencies experienced on that show now explains
why aircraft don't have circuitry rooms and composite hull construction has
never been popular. If you have to dislodge the giant octopus/squid/monster
attached to the hull, there's nothing like running 100,000V through the
hull. But that's not so easy to do if the hull is an electrical insulator.)

Yeah, those guys had things like that happen to them every single week, too.
They must have spent waaaay to much time in the Bermuda Triangle. Or
something.

Speaking of which, I see National Geographic is reporting on their web site
that an expedition has caught a colossal squid (that is its name -- it is a
species even bigger than a giant squid). That thing might have caused a few
problems in the after circuitry room. :-)

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Have you listened to the tape. It is pretty obvious that the controller was
willing to give the pilot the straight-in and the supervisor said no without
any rationalization.

I have not listened to the tape - I was responding to the allegation
that in an emergency, legal separation must still be maintained.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Mike Young" wrote in message
t...
"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
Have you listened to the tape. It is pretty obvious that the controller
was willing to give the pilot the straight-in and the supervisor said no
without any rationalization. In my opinion the airspace could have been
cleared, but the supervisor choose not to. Listen to the tape and tell
me what you think.

The heavily edited tape includes enroute handing off to approach. You did
not at any time hear the supervisor. What you heard was approach
responding "unable" to the 17C request, not a refusal, and an expedited
approach on the active.



You must have listened to a different tape. Try the following. It has the
supervisor denying the straight-in.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104

Danny Deger

Which law, rule or regulation allows near mid-air collisions
because one aircraft has a cob up their ass?




"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
| That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.
|
| Yes it it.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 08:07:44 -0800, The Visitor wrote
(in article ):



C J Campbell wrote:
The pilot declared low fuel.

Well that's it then isn't it. That allowed him to get priority handling
with no fruther delays. And that's what he got.

Pilots still are shy about saying something is an emergency, but a low
fuel declaration is something specific and not an emergency(yet).

There is some sort of myth that a pilot has to say the magic words
"declaring
an emergency" before it becomes an emergency in the eyes of either the FAA
or
the pilot or the law. There is no such requirement. What if the pilot
passes
out? Is it not an emergency just because the pilot doesn't say it is? When
you are low fuel and require special handling, it is an emergency, whether
anyone has actually 'declared' it or not. Same thing with fires, control
failures, or anything else that is an unplanned threat to life or property
that requires action to avoid it.

It is a good idea to tell ATC that you have an emergency, but doing so may
not always be practical or even possible. Besides, some things are just
understood to be emergencies, like being so low on fuel that flying a
normal
approach and landing might be unsuccessful.

When you are low fuel and need special handling, it is an emergency,
whether
you specifically say it is or not. If you were to tell ATC that you were
on
fire, they should treat it as an emergency whether you 'declare' one or
not.
If you say you have runaway trim, a hijacker, or a large flying octopus
that
has covered your entire windshield, it is an emergency, whether you
'declare'
one or not. An unruly passenger grabbing for the controls is an emergency.
Losing all your hydraulic fluid is an emergency. Landing with a flat tire
is
an emergency (hint: the checklist is in the "EMERGENCY PROCEDURES" section
of
the POH). A passenger that passes out is an emergency.
There are many types of emergencies, with many different probabilities of
someone being hurt or killed, but they are all emergencies. Not all
emergencies have to be reported. Many emergencies are easily dealt with.
But
they remain emergencies nonetheless.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


There is a formal call in the world of aviation of "minimum fuel" that is
clearly stated as NOT an emergency. It simply means excessive delays can
not be tolerated.

Danny Deger