equipment list?

What is required as far as a formal equipment list for part 91
operations? In reading 91.205 and listening to one instructor I know, I
cannot reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states that an aircraft
must have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment list for the
plane I fly regularly. I see partial entries for "equipment list" on
W&B forms in the plane, but no formal equipment list showing all the
arms/moments and weights of all the items in the aircraft. I have seen
examples of this for various aircraft in the POH.

I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to what I would call a
useful document for the airplane. It is very brief, contains errors and
contains self-contradictory information. I am not surprised to seem to
be missing a required document.

Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate it or obtain a
new one? I was considering recreating from an account of the logs.

The manufacturer is no longer in business.

Any idea where I would find "equipment list" requirements in the regs?

thanks,
tim

"Tim" wrote in message
news
What is required as far as a formal equipment list for part 91 operations?
In reading 91.205 and listening to one instructor I know, I cannot
reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states that an aircraft must
have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment list for the plane I
fly regularly. I see partial entries for "equipment list" on W&B forms in
the plane, but no formal equipment list showing all the arms/moments and
weights of all the items in the aircraft. I have seen examples of this
for various aircraft in the POH.

I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to what I would call a
useful document for the airplane. It is very brief, contains errors and
contains self-contradictory information. I am not surprised to seem to be
missing a required document.

Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate it or obtain a new
one? I was considering recreating from an account of the logs.

The manufacturer is no longer in business.

Any idea where I would find "equipment list" requirements in the regs?

thanks,
tim

Are you talking about trying create a "Minimum Equipment List" (MEL?) MELs
have to be FAA approved. Take a look at 91.213.

Our club aircraft have MELs and they list each item installed, how many are
installed and how many are required for dispatch. It also indicates whether
or not each item can be placarded "INOP" (or otherwise rendered un-usable)
by the pilot or if it needs the attention of a mechanic. These are things
that do not render the aircraft un-airworthy for a given condition (ie,
Rotating Beacon is not required for Day VFR, but it is for night flight (but
not if the strobes work...says our document.)

When you get down the list to the things required by 91.205, then you get a
solid column of "1 Installed - 1 Required" (or 2 in the case of Vaccuum
pumps...says our document.)

As for W/B, couldn't a shop help? Re-weigh and re-calculate arms?
(Claiming brute ignorance here...sorry.)

HTH,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

On 03/01/07 21:44, Tim wrote:
What is required as far as a formal equipment list for part 91
operations? In reading 91.205 and listening to one instructor I know, I
cannot reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states that an aircraft
must have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment list for the
plane I fly regularly. I see partial entries for "equipment list" on
W&B forms in the plane, but no formal equipment list showing all the
arms/moments and weights of all the items in the aircraft. I have seen
examples of this for various aircraft in the POH.

I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to what I would call a
useful document for the airplane. It is very brief, contains errors and
contains self-contradictory information. I am not surprised to seem to
be missing a required document.

Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate it or obtain a
new one? I was considering recreating from an account of the logs.

The manufacturer is no longer in business.

Any idea where I would find "equipment list" requirements in the regs?

thanks,
tim

There was a recent article by Mike Busch at AVWeb on this topic. AVWeb
members can see the article he

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/194428-1.html

If you're not a member already, join! It's free and there's lots of great
stuff there.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 03/01/07 21:44, Tim wrote:

What is required as far as a formal equipment list for part 91
operations? In reading 91.205 and listening to one instructor I know, I
cannot reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states that an aircraft
must have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment list for the
plane I fly regularly. I see partial entries for "equipment list" on
W&B forms in the plane, but no formal equipment list showing all the
arms/moments and weights of all the items in the aircraft. I have seen
examples of this for various aircraft in the POH.

I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to what I would call a
useful document for the airplane. It is very brief, contains errors and
contains self-contradictory information. I am not surprised to seem to
be missing a required document.

Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate it or obtain a
new one? I was considering recreating from an account of the logs.

The manufacturer is no longer in business.

Any idea where I would find "equipment list" requirements in the regs?

thanks,
tim


There was a recent article by Mike Busch at AVWeb on this topic. AVWeb
members can see the article he

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/194428-1.html

If you're not a member already, join! It's free and there's lots of great
stuff there.


After posting this I found the article. Thanks.

Jay Beckman wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
news
What is required as far as a formal equipment list for part 91 operations?
In reading 91.205 and listening to one instructor I know, I cannot
reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states that an aircraft must
have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment list for the plane I
fly regularly. I see partial entries for "equipment list" on W&B forms in
the plane, but no formal equipment list showing all the arms/moments and
weights of all the items in the aircraft. I have seen examples of this

for various aircraft in the POH.

I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to what I would call a
useful document for the airplane. It is very brief, contains errors and
contains self-contradictory information. I am not surprised to seem to be
missing a required document.

Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate it or obtain a new
one? I was considering recreating from an account of the logs.

The manufacturer is no longer in business.

Any idea where I would find "equipment list" requirements in the regs?

thanks,
tim


Are you talking about trying create a "Minimum Equipment List" (MEL?) MELs
have to be FAA approved. Take a look at 91.213.

Our club aircraft have MELs and they list each item installed, how many are
installed and how many are required for dispatch. It also indicates whether
or not each item can be placarded "INOP" (or otherwise rendered un-usable)
by the pilot or if it needs the attention of a mechanic. These are things
that do not render the aircraft un-airworthy for a given condition (ie,
Rotating Beacon is not required for Day VFR, but it is for night flight (but
not if the strobes work...says our document.)

When you get down the list to the things required by 91.205, then you get a
solid column of "1 Installed - 1 Required" (or 2 in the case of Vaccuum
pumps...says our document.)

As for W/B, couldn't a shop help? Re-weigh and re-calculate arms?
(Claiming brute ignorance here...sorry.)

HTH,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ








No - I was not asking about the MEL. Rather just an "equipment list."
The article referred to by another poster is what i was looking for but
I have not found any other guidelines about what the format should be, etc.

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/07 21:44, Tim wrote:
There was a recent article by Mike Busch at AVWeb on this topic. AVWeb
members can see the article he

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/194428-1.html


Steve Ellis also addressed this in AOPA Pilot in 2001.

There is nothing that I see that says that an up to date equipment list is
required. Mike Busch quotes an FAA publication that advises that the W&B
"must" be updated and then adds in the same sentence, "then the equipment
list is updated." There is no regulation that requires an equipment list.

However, if you're going to do it, Mike's spreadsheet is a pretty nice way
to go about doing it. He even includes a sign off at the bottom.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

An equipment list is required and lists all components and
accessories and parts installed, except for the airframe
itself. A really well done equipment list will include the
model and serial number for items and not just the name,
weight and station [location on the airplane]. This makes
researching and compliance with ADs much easier.
The engine, propeller, alternator, magnetos, battery,
radios, wheels, tires, brakes, seat belts should be listed.

But older airplanes did not have a modern POH and the
owners' handbook would also sometime include a separate AFM
and the factory original W&B data should have had the
equipment list and the FAA should have a copy of that in the
registry in OKC. You can then survey the airplane [good
time to do a real annual] and verify that each item is
really installed, update to include serial numbers and
current AD status and add any items that have been added and
delete items that are no longer installed.



"Tim" wrote in message
...
| Mark Hansen wrote:
| On 03/01/07 21:44, Tim wrote:
|
| What is required as far as a formal equipment list for
part 91
| operations? In reading 91.205 and listening to one
instructor I know, I
| cannot reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states
that an aircraft
| must have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment
list for the
| plane I fly regularly. I see partial entries for
"equipment list" on
| W&B forms in the plane, but no formal equipment list
showing all the
| arms/moments and weights of all the items in the
aircraft. I have seen
| examples of this for various aircraft in the POH.
|
| I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to
what I would call a
| useful document for the airplane. It is very brief,
contains errors and
| contains self-contradictory information. I am not
surprised to seem to
| be missing a required document.
|
| Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate
it or obtain a
| new one? I was considering recreating from an account
of the logs.
|
| The manufacturer is no longer in business.
|
| Any idea where I would find "equipment list"
requirements in the regs?
|
| thanks,
| tim
|
|
| There was a recent article by Mike Busch at AVWeb on
this topic. AVWeb
| members can see the article he
|
| http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/194428-1.html
|
| If you're not a member already, join! It's free and
there's lots of great
| stuff there.
|
|
| After posting this I found the article. Thanks.

See inline replies.

Jim Macklin wrote:
An equipment list is required and lists all components and
accessories and parts installed, except for the airframe
itself.

Where is the reg for this? I have not found it yet. Is there a
specified format?

A really well done equipment list will include the
model and serial number for items and not just the name,
weight and station [location on the airplane]. This makes
researching and compliance with ADs much easier.
The engine, propeller, alternator, magnetos, battery,
radios, wheels, tires, brakes, seat belts should be listed.

But older airplanes did not have a modern POH and the
owners' handbook would also sometime include a separate AFM
and the factory original W&B data should have had the
equipment list and the FAA should have a copy of that in the
registry in OKC. You can then survey the airplane [good
time to do a real annual]

As opposed to an "unreal annual?" I am not sure what you mean by this.

and verify that each item is
really installed, update to include serial numbers and
current AD status and add any items that have been added and
delete items that are no longer installed.

I am most likely going to base mine on the log book entries and an
equipment list from a plane of the same year and model.

thanks, tim





"Tim" wrote in message
...
| Mark Hansen wrote:
| On 03/01/07 21:44, Tim wrote:
|
| What is required as far as a formal equipment list for
part 91
| operations? In reading 91.205 and listening to one
instructor I know, I
| cannot reconcile what he says with the FARs. He states
that an aircraft
| must have an equipment list. I cannot find an equipment
list for the
| plane I fly regularly. I see partial entries for
"equipment list" on
| W&B forms in the plane, but no formal equipment list
showing all the
| arms/moments and weights of all the items in the
aircraft. I have seen
| examples of this for various aircraft in the POH.
|
| I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to
what I would call a
| useful document for the airplane. It is very brief,
contains errors and
| contains self-contradictory information. I am not
surprised to seem to
| be missing a required document.
|
| Is this a required document? If so, how can I recreate
it or obtain a
| new one? I was considering recreating from an account
of the logs.
|
| The manufacturer is no longer in business.
|
| Any idea where I would find "equipment list"
requirements in the regs?
|
| thanks,
| tim
|
|
| There was a recent article by Mike Busch at AVWeb on
this topic. AVWeb
| members can see the article he
|
| http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/194428-1.html
|
| If you're not a member already, join! It's free and
there's lots of great
| stuff there.
|
|
| After posting this I found the article. Thanks.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
An equipment list is required and lists all components and
accessories and parts installed, except for the airframe
itself. A really well done equipment list will include the

As a general statement, I don't think so. A great idea? I agree. Required by
a reg? Where?

An equipment list may be required for the certification but I don't see any
reg that says that you have to keep it up to date. All that is required is
updated W&B. The FAA publication that Mike Busch quotes is somewhat
ambiguous but it is only advisory, anyway.

Having said all that, I did download Mike's spreadsheet and I plan to create
an equipment list - just for fun. However, I'm quite sure that I won't be
able to match the current W&B which will leave a perpetual puzzle until I
pay to have the plane re-weighed.
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Look in part 23 and 91.
§ 23.1589 Loading information.
The following loading information must be furnished:

(a) The weight and location of each item of equipment that
can be easily removed, relocated, or replaced and that is
installed when the airplane was weighed under the
requirement of §23.25.

(b) Appropriate loading instructions for each possible
loading condition between the maximum and minimum weights
established under §23.25, to facilitate the center of
gravity remaining within the limits established under
§23.23.

[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, as amended by
Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR 42167, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. 23-50, 61 FR
5195, Feb. 9, 1996]


§ 91.417 Maintenance records.
(a) Except for work performed in accordance with §§91.411
and 91.413, each registered owner or operator shall keep the
following records for the periods specified in paragraph (b)
of this section:

(1) Records of the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and
alteration and records of the 100-hour, annual, progressive,
and other required or approved inspections, as appropriate,
for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine,
propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. The records
must include-

(i) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the
Administrator) of the work performed; and

(ii) The date of completion of the work performed; and

(iii) The signature, and certificate number of the person
approving the aircraft for return to service.

(2) Records containing the following information:

(i) The total time in service of the airframe, each engine,
each propeller, and each rotor.

(ii) The current status of life-limited parts of each
airframe, engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance.

(iii) The time since last overhaul of all items installed on
the aircraft which are required to be overhauled on a
specified time basis.

(iv) The current inspection status of the aircraft,
including the time since the last inspection required by the
inspection program under which the aircraft and its
appliances are maintained.

(v) The current status of applicable airworthiness
directives (AD) including, for each, the method of
compliance, the AD number, and revision date. If the AD
involves recurring action, the time and date when the next
action is required.

(vi) Copies of the forms prescribed by §43.9(a) of this
chapter for each major alteration to the airframe and
currently installed engines, rotors, propellers, and
appliances.

(b) The owner or operator shall retain the following records
for the periods prescribed:

(1) The records specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this
section shall be retained until the work is repeated or
superseded by other work or for 1 year after the work is
performed.

(2) The records specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this
section shall be retained and transferred with the aircraft
at the time the aircraft is sold.

(3) A list of defects furnished to a registered owner or
operator under §43.11 of this chapter shall be retained
until the defects are repaired and the aircraft is approved
for return to service.

(c) The owner or operator shall make all maintenance records
required to be kept by this section available for inspection
by the Administrator or any authorized representative of the
National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). In addition,
the owner or operator shall present Form 337 described in
paragraph (d) of this section for inspection upon request of
any law enforcement officer.

(d) When a fuel tank is installed within the passenger
compartment or a baggage compartment pursuant to part 43 of
this chapter, a copy of FAA Form 337 shall be kept on board
the modified aircraft by the owner or operator.

(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under
control number 2120-0005)

§ 43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance,
preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records
(except inspections performed in accordance with part 91,
part 125, §135.411(a)(1), and §135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in
paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who
maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or
alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller,
appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the
maintenance record of that equipment containing the
following information:

(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the
Administrator) of work performed.

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than
the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe,
aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has
been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate
number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving
the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return
to service only for the work performed.

(b) Each holder of an air carrier operating certificate or
an operating certificate issued under Part 121 or 135, that
is required by its approved operations specifications to
provide for a continuous airworthiness maintenance program,
shall make a record of the maintenance, preventive
maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration, on aircraft,
airframes, aircraft engines, propellers, appliances, or
component parts which it operates in accordance with the
applicable provisions of Part 121 or 135 of this chapter, as
appropriate.

(c) This section does not apply to persons performing
inspections in accordance with Part 91, 125, §135.411(a)(1),
or §135.419 of this chapter.

(d) In addition to the entry required by paragraph (a) of
this section, major repairs and major alterations shall be
entered on a form, and the form disposed of, in the manner
prescribed in appendix B, by the person performing the work.

[Amdt. 43-23, 47 FR 41085, Sept. 16, 1982, as amended by
Amdt. 43-37, 66 FR 21066, Apr


"Tim" wrote in message
...
| See inline replies.
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| An equipment list is required and lists all components
and
| accessories and parts installed, except for the airframe
| itself.
|
| Where is the reg for this? I have not found it yet. Is
there a
| specified format?
|
| A really well done equipment list will include the
| model and serial number for items and not just the name,
| weight and station [location on the airplane]. This
makes
| researching and compliance with ADs much easier.
| The engine, propeller, alternator, magnetos, battery,
| radios, wheels, tires, brakes, seat belts should be
listed.
|
| But older airplanes did not have a modern POH and the
| owners' handbook would also sometime include a separate
AFM
| and the factory original W&B data should have had the
| equipment list and the FAA should have a copy of that in
the
| registry in OKC. You can then survey the airplane [good
| time to do a real annual]
|
| As opposed to an "unreal annual?" I am not sure what you
mean by this.
|
| and verify that each item is
| really installed, update to include serial numbers and
| current AD status and add any items that have been added
and
| delete items that are no longer installed.
|
| I am most likely going to base mine on the log book
entries and an
| equipment list from a plane of the same year and model.
|
| thanks, tim
|
|
|
|
|
| "Tim" wrote in message
| ...
| | Mark Hansen wrote:
| | On 03/01/07 21:44, Tim wrote:
| |
| | What is required as far as a formal equipment list
for
| part 91
| | operations? In reading 91.205 and listening to one
| instructor I know, I
| | cannot reconcile what he says with the FARs. He
states
| that an aircraft
| | must have an equipment list. I cannot find an
equipment
| list for the
| | plane I fly regularly. I see partial entries for
| "equipment list" on
| | W&B forms in the plane, but no formal equipment list
| showing all the
| | arms/moments and weights of all the items in the
| aircraft. I have seen
| | examples of this for various aircraft in the POH.
| |
| | I fly an older AA5A and the POH is not even close to
| what I would call a
| | useful document for the airplane. It is very brief,
| contains errors and
| | contains self-contradictory information. I am not
| surprised to seem to
| | be missing a required document.
| |
| | Is this a required document? If so, how can I
recreate
| it or obtain a
| | new one? I was considering recreating from an
account
| of the logs.
| |
| | The manufacturer is no longer in business.
| |
| | Any idea where I would find "equipment list"
| requirements in the regs?
| |
| | thanks,
| | tim
| |
| |
| | There was a recent article by Mike Busch at AVWeb on
| this topic. AVWeb
| | members can see the article he
| |
| |
http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/194428-1.html
| |
| | If you're not a member already, join! It's free and
| there's lots of great
| | stuff there.
| |
| |
| | After posting this I found the article. Thanks.
|
|