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#131
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message link.net... "Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... Yes, you would have some competition if each region was periodically bid out, but certainly not perfect competition in the economics sense of the word. But that's the competition that forces private companies to achieve the efficiencies touted by those that advocate privatization. Automation increases productivity thereby reducing labor. |
#132
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John Mazor wrote: That's because, as Reagan proved in 1981, federal unions such as PATCO and NATCA are toothless tigers because they cannot strike. Their sole power resides in their ability to convince management by the logical force of argument - and we all know how well that works if management doesn't want to cooperate - or lobbying for political support on Capitol Hill. NATCA just goes right over the head of management and directly to Congress. NATCA's expensive PR campaign to influence Congress in the FAA Reauthorization Bill, necessitated by the loss of the political support that they enjoyed during the Clinton years, proves that point. NATCA is always going to Congress about something or other. |
#133
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
... John Mazor wrote: If the phone company screws up, your call doesn't go through. If Tony's ATC Service and Aluminum Siding Company gets the low bid and then screws up, you die. If Big Jimbo's Fire Department and Auto Repair screws up, you die. If Slick Sammy's Police and Pet Grooming Station screws up, you die. There's a qualitative difference here, which is why historically we have tended not to privatize these functions, at least in the sense of auctioning it off to the lowest bidder who wants to make a profit at it. Within a few days, you'll be able to switch phone providers at will and keep your old phone number. You can't do that with ATC, switching contractors willy-nilly when one kills people or another comes along with a better price. Sorry, if the call is 911, somebody very well could die. True, but since I don't have the stats on 911 calls, I'll make a WAG here and restate it to read that if the phone company screws up, 99.999% of the time all that happens is that your call doesn't go through. But you swung a two-edged sword by mentioning 911 calls. Once your call goes through, who do you think is at the other end of the line? It's not Ernestine the Operator. It's a government employee. |
#134
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"Newps" wrote in message
news:HRUub.188068$mZ5.1366651@attbi_s54... John Mazor wrote: That's because, as Reagan proved in 1981, federal unions such as PATCO and NATCA are toothless tigers because they cannot strike. Their sole power resides in their ability to convince management by the logical force of argument - and we all know how well that works if management doesn't want to cooperate - or lobbying for political support on Capitol Hill. NATCA just goes right over the head of management and directly to Congress. Right. They can't strike, so they play the only power card they have. NATCA's expensive PR campaign to influence Congress in the FAA Reauthorization Bill, necessitated by the loss of the political support that they enjoyed during the Clinton years, proves that point. NATCA is always going to Congress about something or other. Right. They can't strike, so they play the only power card they have. FAA is trying to get its ATC act together, see the ATO announcements today. Time will tell if they can straighten it out enough to forestall privatization. -- John Mazor "The search for wisdom is asymptotic." "Except for Internet newsgroups, where it is divergent..." -- R J Carpenter |
#135
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message news "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Tom S." wrote in message news Wrong analogy. No, that's the precise analogy. Privatization for the Bells was the end of human Toll Call connection, in favor of automation. Now a collect call for 20 minutes costs less than the first minute of a direct dial toll call once did. The Bell's were always private companies, but with legal monopolies. It was the introduction of COMPETITION, in the form of MCI (who essentially started it off) and other than drove the Bells to compete. They could not do it with labor intensive processes. |
#136
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"Tom S." wrote in message ... "Tarver Engineering" wrote in message news "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Tom S." wrote in message news Wrong analogy. No, that's the precise analogy. Privatization for the Bells was the end of human Toll Call connection, in favor of automation. Now a collect call for 20 minutes costs less than the first minute of a direct dial toll call once did. The Bell's were always private companies, but with legal monopolies. It was the introduction of COMPETITION, in the form of MCI (who essentially started it off) and other than drove the Bells to compete. They could not do it with labor intensive processes. Payroll is where the money is. |
#137
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ... "Tom S." wrote in message ... "Tarver Engineering" wrote in message news "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Tom S." wrote in message news Wrong analogy. No, that's the precise analogy. Privatization for the Bells was the end of human Toll Call connection, in favor of automation. Now a collect call for 20 minutes costs less than the first minute of a direct dial toll call once did. The Bell's were always private companies, but with legal monopolies. It was the introduction of COMPETITION, in the form of MCI (who essentially started it off) and other than drove the Bells to compete. They could not do it with labor intensive processes. Payroll is where the money is. And headcount is what gives unions and executives POWER. |
#138
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... Yes, you would have some competition if each region was periodically bid out, but certainly not perfect competition in the economics sense of the word. But that's the competition that forces private companies to achieve the efficiencies touted by those that advocate privatization. I agree that you need "perfect" competition to yield perfectly low prices, but perfect competition rarely exists in the real world as it requires consumers to have perfect knowledge of all alternate products and their prices. A regional system is far from perfect, but it would provide much more competition than exists now, but certainly far from perfect competition. It is also fairly well established now that a free market isn't the best way to handle every good and service. I think there are services that are better handled via a regulated monopoly, a government or other form of distribution. Matt |
#139
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John Mazor wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... John Mazor wrote: If the phone company screws up, your call doesn't go through. If Tony's ATC Service and Aluminum Siding Company gets the low bid and then screws up, you die. If Big Jimbo's Fire Department and Auto Repair screws up, you die. If Slick Sammy's Police and Pet Grooming Station screws up, you die. There's a qualitative difference here, which is why historically we have tended not to privatize these functions, at least in the sense of auctioning it off to the lowest bidder who wants to make a profit at it. Within a few days, you'll be able to switch phone providers at will and keep your old phone number. You can't do that with ATC, switching contractors willy-nilly when one kills people or another comes along with a better price. Sorry, if the call is 911, somebody very well could die. True, but since I don't have the stats on 911 calls, I'll make a WAG here and restate it to read that if the phone company screws up, 99.999% of the time all that happens is that your call doesn't go through. I have no idea as I have no statistics. However, probably similar stats apply to ATC. You seem to think that every ATC mistake results in guaranteed death of a pilot or airplane passenger. This is hardly the case at all. But you swung a two-edged sword by mentioning 911 calls. Once your call goes through, who do you think is at the other end of the line? It's not Ernestine the Operator. It's a government employee. Not where I live. Last I knew the dispatching of emergency services was provided by a private contractor and all of the responders in my area (rural) are unpaid volunteers. Matt |
#140
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... I agree that you need "perfect" competition to yield perfectly low prices, but perfect competition rarely exists in the real world as it requires consumers to have perfect knowledge of all alternate products and their prices. A regional system is far from perfect, but it would provide much more competition than exists now, but certainly far from perfect competition. It wouldn't provide any real competition. The users wouldn't have a choice in providers. |
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