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#21
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C J Campbell wrote:
: manipulating : the controls? That's the way it would appear. : : That was brought up earlier in the thread. You could argue it either way. : What do you log while the plane is on autopilot? In the autopilot case, one could argue that the act of engaging the autopilot is "manipulating the flight controls." If that's not the case, the apparently if the autopilot is on, then nobody can log PIC time (unless the pilot is solo). I understand the comment previously about the "required crew member" not pertaining to loggable time. Basically, if the acting PIC isn't touching the controls, solo, or operating where "more than one pilot is required," (read: simulated instrument safety pilot or big iron requiring more than one pilot), the acting PIC cannot log the time. Hrm.... -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#22
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... C J Campbell wrote: : wrote in message : ... : : Basically the same as above, except the question of Jill logging the time : is : moot, since she is not rated in the category/class/[type]. Don't the regs : only allow : manipulation of the controls by a rated person (strictly speaking) unless : a CFI is : PIC? : : No. The regulations allow anyone to manipulate the controls for a part 91 : flight. Just curious where. Also, if a pilot takes a non-pilot flying, according to FAR 61.51(e)(iii): (iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted. the pilot cannot log PIC time for the duration he/she is not physically manipulating the controls? That's the way it would appear. That was brought up earlier in the thread. You could argue it either way. What do you log while the plane is on autopilot? Every flight must have a PIC to ensure the safe conduct of the flight. A piece of hardware (autopilot) cannot fill this requirement. All the qualified pilots on board should agree who will be the PIC before the flight. It is interesting that an autopilot is equivalent to a pilot-made-of-meat on some planes, however. I've been told that large planes used to require either a 3-person crew (captain, first officer, navigator) but an autopilot could be substituted for the navigator. |
#23
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William W. Plummer wrote:
: Every flight must have a PIC to ensure the safe conduct of the flight. A : piece of hardware (autopilot) cannot fill this requirement. All the : qualified pilots on board should agree who will be the PIC before the : flight. Right, but since this whole thing is a semantic argument about FAR minutia, it requires being specific. What does it mean to "have a PIC?" An aircraft cannot be legally operated unless someone is qualified to act as PIC on it. That's apparently a different entity from *logging* PIC. While it's true that qualified pilots on board should agree a-priori who will be PIC, the trouble comes one of them cannot act as PIC. For example, Joe has PP-SEL without high-performance, complex. Billy-Bob has PP-SEL with the endorsements. If the two go flying a Comanche-250 and Joe drives, Joe gets to log it, but Billy-Bob is acting PIC and cannot log it. If Joe drives under the hood, he can even log simulated instrument time in this plane he cannot act as PIC in. What a cluster-f*ck. -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#24
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"William W. Plummer" wrote in message news:juntc.70708$gr.6808104@attbi_s52... Every flight must have a PIC to ensure the safe conduct of the flight. Nothing in the regulations says so. Neither does it have anything to do with logging PIC. |
#25
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#26
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C J Campbell wrote:
: No. The regulations allow anyone to manipulate the controls for a part 91 : flight. I cannot find that part of the regulation. Any coordinates? Also, if it's not illegal to have a non-pilot manipulating the controls, then for the duration of time that non-pilot is maniuplating the controls, nobody can log PIC, correct? -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#27
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#28
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Every flight must have a PIC to ensure the safe conduct of the flight. A piece of hardware (autopilot) cannot fill this requirement. Hmmm... what about RPVs? Who (if anybody) gets to log what, and why? Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#29
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Also, if it's not illegal to have a non-pilot manipulating the controls, then for the duration of time that non-pilot is maniuplating the controls, nobody can log PIC, correct? I consider the non-pilot to be an organic autopilot, and log the time. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#30
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