asymetric warfare

"John" wrote in
:

[snip]

35 knots (let's be generous) and half an hour means a ship or convoy
could get 32410m away from the target point. This gives an area of
3,299,954,370m2. UK trident-II missiles can 8 475kT warheads which
will start fires at 9km, meaning they'll make the fuel onboard a
carrier explode within an area of 254,469,005m2. So you need a total

Well, I suupose if there was a large quantity of fuel lying about
in puddles on deck that might be true, otherwise what kind of
drugs are you on?

IBM

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On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:50:27 -0000, Andrew McCruden wrote:

This doesn't match previous descriptions of the Record breaking shot i've
seen, All previous accounts describe the Target as a T-55, the range I've
seen variously quoted as 5000m, 5000yds and 5 miles, 3000m is the lowest
range figure by far

It certainly was NOT a Challenger II, The II didn't exist in 1991, all the
British Tanks deployed in Desert Storm were Chalenger I's

I've got a vague memory of that and I believe it was a French shot.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:40:27 -0800, Steve Hix wrote:

One problem here; totalitarian regimes tend not to tolerate lots of
initiative in their underlings, which makes preparing for this sort of
fighting somewhat harder.

True, but there are exceptions, Nazi Germany being an obvious one.

--
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people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
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the last two letters).

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:02:34 -0000, Keith Willshaw wrote:

No, he merely thinks Lisp's macro system has advantages, when trying
to solve hard problems.

And some nasty disadvantages which is why it has somewhat
fallen out of favour.

All solutions have disadvantages. (Because all the ones that don't a
standard practise, and no-one ever considers doing it another way).

--
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people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

In article MPG.1a52b872713147f59897c9@news,
Bernardz wrote:

In article ,
says...

...if nobody bothers with counterbattery fire, or drops a bunch of high
explosives in the area of the artillery to make them stop shooting.

We *know* where these cannons are going to be firing from. Wh know
where their hardened shelters are. We know where their radar defenses
are.

If the North doesn't start with a completely unprovoked surprise attack,
they've got a good chance of getting erased very quickly.

I doubt we know as much as you think.

Really? Why?

The area just north of the border is one of the most observed areas on
the planet. A couple of generations of South Korean spies have had time
to look the area over, and a couple of generations of North Korean
defectors have had time to tell us where everything is.

We would definitely know once they
started firing in bulk missiles and shells.

If they ever get the chance, that is.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
"John" wrote:

On the other hand five miles is about the right range for AT-missiles.

That's interesting, because the vast majority of deployed ATGM systems
in the world have a range of much less than half that, and only one or
two can make as much as 6,000 meters.

The smaller ones that would fit in the "slap it on an SUV" category
would be in the 1,000 to 1,500 meter range.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In sci.military.naval John twisted the electrons to say:
UK trident-II missiles can 8 475kT warheads ...

Operative word there being *can* - by all accounts, they only carry 3
warheads per missile. This being done to defuse the peace-niks in the UK
by saying it's not a massive upgrade over Polaris because it only has the
same number of warheads ...

Otherwise a single sub can destroy america. MAD remember?

1 sub x 16 missiles x 3 warheads a piece, I think America consists of
more than 48 places of "interest" ...
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In message , Peter Stickney
writes
Actually, John, you don't seem to have much of an understanding of how
tanks work, or what the typical engangement ranges are.
Five miles is right out.
The longest range kill achieved by a tank to date is a 3,000m (roughlt
1.5 Statute Mile shot by a British Challenger II vs. an Iraqi T72 in
the 1990-91 Gulf War.

5,150 metres by a Challenger 1. (Allegedly a first-shot hit)

Even in open country like Iraq, the usual
longest range for a Main Gun shot on an opposing tank was 2000m. In a
European rural environment, the most likely engagement range would be
1000m. In more closed country, like, say, the Northeastern U.S., or
Maritime Canada, engagement ranges as close as 50-100m are not
unlikely.

Open-fire ranges tend to be considerably longer, 2-2.5 kilometres being
frequent when visibility permits: however, the enemy rarely agrees to
cooperatively sit at that range.


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"John" wrote:
35 knots (let's be generous) and half an hour means a ship or convoy could
get 32410m away from the target point. This gives an area of
3,299,954,370m2. UK trident-II missiles can 8 475kT warheads which will
start fires at 9km, meaning they'll make the fuel onboard a carrier explode
within an area of 254,469,005m2.

ROTFLMAO. Theres considerable more energy required to burst tanks in
the bottom of a steel ship than there is to start an urban area on
fire. (On top of which modern combatants are designed to withstand
considerable overpressure.)

So you need a total of 12 warheads (or two missiles) to kill the convoy. This
assumes the US has perfect reaction times, and can instantly guess the
arget at the moment of launch, which it can't.

This assumes that you can determine the position, course, and speed of
the convoy accurately (no navigation error in your sensor), get the
information back within a reasonable timeframe (without getting killed
when you radiate) and fire your missiles with a sufficiently low CEP
(1 mile)... And even then it's unlikely you'll actually sink a ship.

As I said, nuclear buckshot will kill most things.

Thats the wet dream of most armchair admirals. The reality is quite
different.

D.
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Corrections, comments, and additions should be
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Erik Max Francis writes:

Derek Lyons wrote:

Another half truth, though I don't know if it's you, or you parroting
his half truths. They collected a judgement against him for failing
to pay his taxes.

Indeed, I found that to be the most suspicious part of his story, a
really strong indication he was rationalizing away his responsibility.
How does the government trick you into failing to pay your taxes, so
they can scrub a project of yours, exactly, anyway?

Oh, that's easy. Just have a corrupt county sheriff, the Illinois
Highway patrol, the Chicago PD, an irate country-western band, the
Illinois Nazi Party, the National Guard, and Carrie Fisher all line
up to stop them from delivering the check to the assessor's office
before the deadline...


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