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#21
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In article
, BRUCE FRANK wrote: Since there seems to be a thought that we all need an AOA indicator, I have missed something. Are there planes that give no indication of an impending stall? Isn't a large part of flight training concentrated on recognizing that impending stall? The people with whom I have flown who regularly fly the ragged edge of the bottom end of the airspeed ignore the stall warning horn and just fly the plane. That isn't flying by the seat of one's pants, its understanding the what the normally present indicators are telling you. I will have to agree that no one survives all those years crop dusting by looking at some kind of gauge. It is flying skill and knowledge. On a much smaller scale it's like getting to the point as a student when you realize you are flying approach and discovering you're not having to watch the airspeed indicator gauge...and you're squeaking it on. Bruce A. Frank Type certificated aircraft are required to have some sort of stall warning that occurs far enough before the stall so the pilot can respond to the stall warning and avoid the stall (the regs don't use exactly these words, but that is the intent). Ideally, the stall warning would be aerodynamic buffet, but some aircraft either don't have enough buffet, or it occurs too close to the stall, so system is added to provide stall warning. The original version of FAR 23 allowed the stall warning to be some visual device in the cockpit, but FAR 23 amendment 7 in 1969 added words "However, a visual stall warning device that requires the attention of the crew within the cockpit is not acceptable by itself. " I can't find an online copy of CAR 3, which predated FAR 23, and is the design standard that many popular light aircraft were held to. I assume it was similar to the first edition of FAR 23. So, for type certificated aircraft, it is a mixed bag - a visual stall warning device would be acceptable from a regulatory point of view on some models, but not others, depending on when it was designed. From a safety point of view, it is crazy to have a stall warning that is only effective if you are looking at it. If you have enough situational awareness to be actively watching the stall warning indicator, you are probably not in danger of stalling. The dangerous stalls are the ones that bite you when your head is buried up your a** as you are not paying attention to the airspeed, or how hard you are pulling at low speed. If I was crop dusting, I would sure want an aircraft that "talked" to you aerodynamically as you approached the stall. Two of the funnest aircraft I've ever flown had nice progressively increasing buffet as you approached the stall. You could manoeuvre hard just by feel and really work the wing. Homebuilts don't have to meet any stall warning requirements. For example, the RVs that I have flown have very little aerodynamic stall warning. Yes, there is a small amount of buffet a couple of mph before the stall, and it can be noticed if you are looking for it. But if you were distracted you could easily miss it and inadvertently stall the aircraft, if you abused it bad enough. -- Kevin Horton - RV-8 Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ |
#22
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AOA - Piece of yarn on a stick?
-- Dan D. .. "Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message ... Bob, Bob, Bob, You can make a AOA indicator for $50 and a little bit of time to machine a dual purpose pitot - AOA pylon for the end of your wing. I do agree that many gauges on the dashes of many kitbuilts are worth a great deal less than the asking price, but a stall warning system is worth its weight in gold!!! Just ask the gentleman that "made it" to Oshkosh in a Glasair got stuck behind a cub on final, did "s" turns until he fell out of the sky 400 ft short of the runway. DEAD. Another Information System Engineer, but without a gold lined wallet. -- Bart D. Hull +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jezus... Just admit you know not how to fly small GA aircraft. You sound like one of the typical dumb**** cable infomercials. Gimmee a break and quit insulting my meager intelligence. Glasairs and Cubs will never mix and starring at a homebrew AOA on a wingtip instead of where one is going while attempting to navigate the world's busiest airport at rush hour is... extremely poor form in my 50 year old book of competent piloting. You can X, Y, Z or S 'til hell freezes over, but .... Not even a $5000 AOA indicator can substitute for good judgment and save your dumb ass when you should be on final at 100 mph instead of attempting to match wits with a 40 mph Cub.... if what you say has even a grain of truth in it. I've successfully flown thousands of hours on the ragged edge of stall crop dusting and I attribute that more to being competent at stall recognition than some $50 huckster claim of a life saving device for dummies. FWIW.. I've been hearing and reading about cheapy AOA indicators for the better part of 50 years. If they were worth a hoot, you or somebody would be selling them for $100 and getting rich.... or getting your ass sued into oblivion. P.S. Have you installed the $50 AOA on your, yet to fly, Tango? BE HONEST or you will crash and burn behind a Piper Cub. P.S.S. What is it with you Information System Engineers that make you brag about your credentials in a pilot oriented community? From what I have seen in the last 24 hours.... It's hardly an asset when garbage in = garbage out. Barnyard BOb - please don't 'ax' me to talk to dead men |
#23
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That's all I was saying. Nothing more. I did not suggest that we *all* need one, just that *he* needs one. And Bob, if he can afford variable-geometry wings he can damned well afford an AOA. He'll need it. One thing my experience in IS has taught me is that the system that requires the least amount of human discipline and/or interpretation is the one that will work best when operated by humans. We're inconsistent, forgetful, inattentive things and it's best to simplify things for the human as much as possible. Especially when lives are on the line. Grieg +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I stand corrected. Somehow, I missed the variable-geometry gobbledy gook. By all means, install a fool proof toilet seat while your at it, with automatic arse wiper... being us humans are sooooo absent minded and forgetful. Barnyard BOb -- dining on salted crow while LM_A_O |
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