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Chopper Question



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 7th 03, 05:50 PM
Paul Riley
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"Quilljar" wrote in message
...
I heard that choppers do not fly at all. It's just that the earth rejects
them temporarily! :-)


No, choppers do fly--the rotors beat the air into submission!!!! I know,
spent 18 years flying them for the US Army. VBG

Paul


  #12  
Old November 7th 03, 05:58 PM
Al Denelsbeck
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"Paul Riley" wrote in
:


"Quilljar" wrote in message
...
I heard that choppers do not fly at all. It's just that the earth
rejects them temporarily! :-)


No, choppers do fly--the rotors beat the air into submission!!!! I
know, spent 18 years flying them for the US Army. VBG


It's a close match, though... ;-)


- Al.

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  #13  
Old November 7th 03, 07:53 PM
Peter Duniho
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"Anonymous" wrote in message
...
Well if you want to KEEP flying your plane instead of flying a field, then
keeping the nose down is generally not a good idea... ;o)


That all depends. But if the airplane is about the stall, the only way to
avoid "flying a field" is to push on the stick. Keeping the nose down is
*exactly* the good idea.

Whereas with a helicopter, if you push the nose down and keep it just

slightly
tipped downwards, while making careful increases to the collective, you

should
be able to increase speed AND keep your altitude roughly the same.


Note your use of "while making careful increases to the collective".
Likewise, in an airplane, all that's necessary to maintain altitude is to
make "careful increases to power".

Pete


  #14  
Old November 7th 03, 08:21 PM
Al Denelsbeck
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

"Anonymous" wrote in message
...
Well if you want to KEEP flying your plane instead of flying a field,
then keeping the nose down is generally not a good idea... ;o)


That all depends. But if the airplane is about the stall, the only
way to avoid "flying a field" is to push on the stick. Keeping the
nose down is *exactly* the good idea.

Whereas with a helicopter, if you push the nose down and keep it just

slightly
tipped downwards, while making careful increases to the collective,
you

should
be able to increase speed AND keep your altitude roughly the same.


Note your use of "while making careful increases to the collective".
Likewise, in an airplane, all that's necessary to maintain altitude is
to make "careful increases to power".


Forward flight on a helicopter is achieved by having the rotor disk
tipped forward, which has to be done by tipping the body as well (to a
lesser extent with a rigid hub, but still necessary). This is regardless of
the power settings, altitude, rate-of-climb, et cetera.

And you *will not climb* in any fixed wing aircraft with the nose
pointed down. In a helo, this is typical behavior.


- Al.

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  #15  
Old November 8th 03, 12:19 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 8...
Forward flight on a helicopter is achieved by having the rotor disk
tipped forward


Yes, I know that. So?

And you *will not climb* in any fixed wing aircraft with the nose
pointed down.


I never said you would.

In a helo, this is typical behavior.


I never said it wasn't.

Sorry...was there a point to your post?

Pete


  #16  
Old November 8th 03, 12:46 AM
Quilljar
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Paul Riley wrote:
"Quilljar" wrote in message
...
I heard that choppers do not fly at all. It's just that the earth
rejects them temporarily! :-)


No, choppers do fly--the rotors beat the air into submission!!!! I
know, spent 18 years flying them for the US Army. VBG

Paul


Yeah I know, I spent some time falling into the sea in them in the Royal
Navy, in the mediterranean in winter ouch!


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  #17  
Old November 8th 03, 12:55 AM
Al Denelsbeck
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 8...
Forward flight on a helicopter is achieved by having the rotor disk
tipped forward


Yes, I know that. So?

And you *will not climb* in any fixed wing aircraft with the nose
pointed down.


I never said you would.

In a helo, this is typical behavior.


I never said it wasn't.

Sorry...was there a point to your post?



About as much point as your posts bandying about 'pointing a fixed-
wing's nose down to go faster'. You can go even faster, eventually, by
pointing the nose sraight up and killing throttle, too. So what? And in
what way does this have anything whatsoever to do with the thread on
instructing someone about helo flight?

Lowering the nose to gain airspeed in a fixed wing is generally
considered to be really poor flying skills, not to mention inviting
overspeed situations. Descents are supposed to be strictly controlled,
which is why you *reduce* power to accomplish them, and if you're lowering
the nose to counter a stall, that means a) it's too damn high to begin
with, and b) you don't know what the hell you're doing.

Enough of a point?


- Al.

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  #18  
Old November 8th 03, 01:23 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 7...
Lowering the nose to gain airspeed in a fixed wing is generally
considered to be really poor flying skills, not to mention inviting
overspeed situations.


lol...

Obviously not a pilot. Or at least, not a skilled one. There are numerous
situations where airspeed is controlled with pitch, and the only way to
increase airspeed with pitch is to lower the nose.

For whatever reason, you have gotten your nose all bent out of shape for
nothing. But you might want to stop before you've dug yourself even deeper.
The more you talk about flying, the less it looks like you know.

Pete


  #19  
Old November 8th 03, 03:20 AM
Ralph Jones
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On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:23:55 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
.7...
Lowering the nose to gain airspeed in a fixed wing is generally
considered to be really poor flying skills, not to mention inviting
overspeed situations.


lol...

Obviously not a pilot. Or at least, not a skilled one.


Definitely one who's never done a loop...

rj
  #20  
Old November 8th 03, 05:19 PM
David G. Bell
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On Friday, in article
01c3a4ec$a2ea3140$0400a8c0@soveks-computer
"Sovek" wrote:

ok, first off, I do not have a joystick, thats on my want list, second,
where is a good sight to download a *good* chopper? I did have a steady
hover a couple of feet off the ground, but that fowled up too another
question is, how many of you circle the airport before landing? I never do
and have a good landing record, course some of em were pretty rough :/


There have been, over the years, some good books about how to fly Flight
Simulator realistically, and, apart from helicopters, there have been
few changes. A book covering FS4 can still tell you a lot about flying
a Cessna according to the proper procedures.

Circling the airfield, the "pattern", is a way of setting up the
landing. It gives a chance to look over the runway, and provides a set
of consistent visual cues. Done right, you're flying parallel to the
runway, at the same distance and altitude above the runway, and it
always looks the same. It's a method for visual flying, "VFR".

The other method is the normal way for airliners, business jets, and the
like, flying with radio beacons and, sometimes. without anything visible
outside, what they call "IFR". The specifics differ for each airfield,
and each runway, but involve picking up, and following, a radio beam
aligned with the runway.

Either way, the last part of the approach and landing gets to be
consistent; the speed and the descent rate fixing a line in the sky
which reaches the runway at the same point every time.


Now, you can fly the Cessna well without a joystick, and it can even
teach you good habits. You have to keep thinking ahead, as you can't
easily give a quick flick of full-stick to get out of trouble. But
don't fly with turbulent air.

It's important to get the elevator trim right, rather than just keying
in a bit of elevator, as you would have to re-key that correction each
time you centre the controls.

The basic principle is to get the speed right with the elevators,
remembering to lower the undercarriage and use the flaps, and adjust the
descent rate with the throttle. The throttle will affect the speed too,
and the elevator trim can need a little tweak with a major throttle
change. The pattern can give time to do some of this setting up for the
landing.

For Flight Simulator, Meigs Field is the traditional place to learn all
this. An important real-world point is that the approach patterns for
Meigs had to be over the lake, safely clear of the city buildings. So,
approaching from the south needs right-hand turns while from the north
uses left-hand turns.

It's also important to practise at other airports, so you learn to
recognise when the runway looks right, rather than learning to fly over
some local landmark.

Back in the days of FS4 some people recommended starting out with the
Learjet. Everything happens much faster, and that can be pretty
overwhelming. And it's easy to run out of runway at Meigs. But Flight
Simulator crashes don't kill people.




--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."
 




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