Real time continuous Prop balancing

"abripl" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll give them an 8.5 on the bull**** scale...

Thank you for your technical help. I assume you have tried them
yourself and are giving an objective observation.


Try them? You've got to be kidding.

To quote the web pages:

"However, when sudden braking or slowing occurs, the fluids continue to spin
for several revolutions until they slow down to the wheel speed. Therefore,
the fluid moving at high speed and weighing nearly 28 ounces per wheel whip
around the ring at ten to fifteen revolutions per second. This weight, when
pulled by gravity over the top of the wheel, "falls" over the front side of
the wheel where the force is created which "pulls" the wheel down onto the
pavement-JUST WHEN YOU NEED IT TO-on sudden braking over hard bumps or
across sheets of water to create a road-hugging controlability and
anti-sway, anti-drift and anti-trailer hop and bounce effect"

RiiiiIIIiiight.

Or, from the other web page:

"The Company claims the dissimilar metallic composition of the balancer,
i.e. steel mounting plate and aluminum balancing ring, dissipates wheel/tire
heating while in operation. This feature is called "ThermoFlow" by the
Company. Basic rules of thermal physics apply as different metals have
different coefficients of contraction/expansion with convection heat
transfer migrating to the metallic content with the highest coefficient of
expansion/contraction, i.e. rapid transfer from the wheel/hub/tire assembly
to the steel mounting plate to the aluminum tube."

You don't have to pay for bull**** to smell bull****.

8.5 - you can't get a 10.0 without invoking space aliens AND anti-gravity.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

I think the down force is the result of gyroscopic precession which is 90 °
for the applied force. Balance rings are not new. Mark Landrol sells one
for RVs with wooden prop that many are happy about.




"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
...
"abripl" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll give them an 8.5 on the bull**** scale...

Thank you for your technical help. I assume you have tried them
yourself and are giving an objective observation.


Try them? You've got to be kidding.

To quote the web pages:

"However, when sudden braking or slowing occurs, the fluids continue to
spin for several revolutions until they slow down to the wheel speed.
Therefore, the fluid moving at high speed and weighing nearly 28 ounces
per wheel whip around the ring at ten to fifteen revolutions per second.
This weight, when pulled by gravity over the top of the wheel, "falls"
over the front side of the wheel where the force is created which "pulls"
the wheel down onto the pavement-JUST WHEN YOU NEED IT TO-on sudden
braking over hard bumps or across sheets of water to create a road-hugging
controlability and anti-sway, anti-drift and anti-trailer hop and bounce
effect"

RiiiiIIIiiight.

Or, from the other web page:

"The Company claims the dissimilar metallic composition of the balancer,
i.e. steel mounting plate and aluminum balancing ring, dissipates
wheel/tire heating while in operation. This feature is called "ThermoFlow"
by the Company. Basic rules of thermal physics apply as different metals
have different coefficients of contraction/expansion with convection heat
transfer migrating to the metallic content with the highest coefficient of
expansion/contraction, i.e. rapid transfer from the wheel/hub/tire
assembly to the steel mounting plate to the aluminum tube."

You don't have to pay for bull**** to smell bull****.

8.5 - you can't get a 10.0 without invoking space aliens AND anti-gravity.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

RiiiiIIIiiight.
You don't have to pay for bull**** to smell bull****.
8.5 - you can't get a 10.0 without invoking space aliens AND anti-gravity.

I just love all your scientific savy.

I've wondered about these. By both brands, there is a mass of weights and
fluids that counteract the shake of imbalance.


I never made it past Phy101 but how I see the problem is that a heavy spot
of imbalance provokes a rotating object to a larger orbit. The instance
of a car tire bouncing I have witnessed myself, but the low side was always
constrained by the pavement.
So, what causes the correction mass to seek the lighter low side?

And what happens under the influence of an engines torsion vibration? The
quick back & forth of the crank's twist, the wind and unwinding,
Is the mass be heavy enough to lag behind the twist of how many.... 8 or 12
twists per revolution??

My guess about the rings on Rv's with the wooden props is its simply a
matter having enough mass on the crank to absorb the torsion of the engine.
Somethig heavy enough to steady down the running of the engine...Somewhat
similar to running a chevy small block minus a flywheel, on the shop floor!.

And a big question of all... why don't we commonly see more of these
mechanisms on vehicles?

Kent Felkins
Tulsa











"Cy Galley" wrote in message
news:7Jjxf.698432$_o.515003@attbi_s71...
I think the down force is the result of gyroscopic precession which is 90
°
for the applied force. Balance rings are not new. Mark Landrol sells one
for RVs with wooden prop that many are happy about.




"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
...
"abripl" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll give them an 8.5 on the bull**** scale...

Thank you for your technical help. I assume you have tried them
yourself and are giving an objective observation.


Try them? You've got to be kidding.

To quote the web pages:

"However, when sudden braking or slowing occurs, the fluids continue to
spin for several revolutions until they slow down to the wheel speed.
Therefore, the fluid moving at high speed and weighing nearly 28 ounces
per wheel whip around the ring at ten to fifteen revolutions per second.
This weight, when pulled by gravity over the top of the wheel, "falls"
over the front side of the wheel where the force is created which
"pulls"
the wheel down onto the pavement-JUST WHEN YOU NEED IT TO-on sudden
braking over hard bumps or across sheets of water to create a
road-hugging
controlability and anti-sway, anti-drift and anti-trailer hop and bounce
effect"

RiiiiIIIiiight.

Or, from the other web page:

"The Company claims the dissimilar metallic composition of the balancer,
i.e. steel mounting plate and aluminum balancing ring, dissipates
wheel/tire heating while in operation. This feature is called
"ThermoFlow"
by the Company. Basic rules of thermal physics apply as different metals
have different coefficients of contraction/expansion with convection
heat
transfer migrating to the metallic content with the highest coefficient
of
expansion/contraction, i.e. rapid transfer from the wheel/hub/tire
assembly to the steel mounting plate to the aluminum tube."

You don't have to pay for bull**** to smell bull****.

8.5 - you can't get a 10.0 without invoking space aliens AND
anti-gravity.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

Fly,

There are more than just those two companies making them - like
www.taabs-int.com, www.imiproducts.com and some reference to
http://www.tirelife.com/
An article that discusses that is at
http://www.landlinemag.com/Archives/...tires_life.htm

There are several independent reviews of the devices and all indicate
they work. There is an interesting demo machine that Centramatic.com
distributies to ilustrate the balancing effect on a demo wheel. A demo
video is available at http://www.centramatic.com/Demo/video2.mpg

As far as I see it does not violate conservation of angular momentum.
A free body in space will always be in angular balance about its CM
whereas that is not the same case for rigid bodies rotating about a
fixed axis - maybe that is the key: there extra bodies free to move.

As to why they are not used more... probably the extra cost is
prohibitive, to say an automobile where a $20 tire balance will do. But
for big trucks it can pay off.

I am not promoting the devices, but just have an open mind. Its so easy
to put down others and not be creative oneself.

On 11 Jan 2006 18:22:58 -0800, "abripl"
wrote:

I'll give them an 8.5 on the bull**** scale...

Thank you for your technical help. I assume you have tried them
yourself and are giving an objective observation.

I can't say I've tried them all but I have tried a bunch of them. I've
been in the tire business for over 40 years. After radial tires became
popular but before computer balancers were available we tried
everything to give customers a smooth ride.

Several of the oil/ball bearing rings, sand, plastic beads, windshield
washer fluid. Some truckers even put 3 golf balls in their tires. The
thing with all these ring type "balancers" is they are on a single
plane. They do nothing for side to side imbalance.

We tried them with on-the-car strobe and computer balancers. The only
thing that was constant was that the imbalance would move every time
you stopped the tire.

Spend your money how you please but I won't use them if they are free.

The thing with all these ring type "balancers" is they are on a single
plane. They do nothing for side to side imbalance. ...

That is all that is done for props. When you take your prop in for
dynamic balance all they do is add weights to the spinner ring -
"single plane balancing".

"abripl" wrote:

Such a continuous balance device would also take care of imbalance as
the prop gets nicks and scratches. It might even help in flight with
accidental prop damage. These are some of the good reasons...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Not to mention this could well be a solution in search of a problem.

When it comes to RELIABLE flying...

- KISS -

K eep
I t
S imple
S toopid.


- Barnyard BOb - more than a half century of flight

Hi,

I believe that such balancers are possible. I have seen
such a system on a washing machine probably
made in the 1960s. Huge initial shake, big clunks,
perfect balance.

http://www.monografias.com/trabajos1...ensating.shtml
Very mathemetical paper but may be a start for a search.

A while back I did a bit of googling on such balancers but
I forget the results now but seem to recall an application
in some reasonably high volume device. Chain saw?

abripl wrote:
This thread is not about how to balance a prop or shop balancing
machines.

Did anyone use BalanceMasters device bolted on their ultralight prop?

These devices apparently balance the prop continuously as you fly.
Similar devices are used on truck wheels - see www.BalanceMasters.com
and www.centramatic.com


ya know, if we consider this to be a wood UL prop (US style),
it doesn't weigh more than about 5 ot 6 pounds.

If the prop static balances ok, but still vibrates badly enough to
cause concern, I think I'd just replace it because it obviously has
a problem.

A couple of hundred bucks for a new Tennessee Props propeller isn't
that bad - specially when the alternative is throwing a prop blade
in flight.

Just a thought...


Richard