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#11
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Thinking about buying a DG400
No lifetime limit on the PIK20E. From 2011:
Dear sir, There is no life limit for an airframe of PIK-20E. However, there is a standard inspection procedure, AIR T6-1, for aging sailplanes which shall be carried out after 3000hrs and every next 1000hrs. The AIR T6-1 is published in Finnish Civil Aviation authority circular advisory (http://www.ilmailuhallinto.fi/files/...t/ait6_1e.pdf). The special inspection procedure can be found from chapter 5. Kind regards, Vesa Räisänen Technical Trainee Finnish Transport Safety Agency Kumpulantie 9, P.O.Box 320, FI-00101 Helsinki tel. +358 (0)20 618 500 e-mail: internet: http://www.trafi.fi On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 4:59:29 AM UTC-6, wrote: Third and last point. I´ve also been thinking about buying a PIK20E. I´ve seen one with 1500H and 147 engine hours. It is cheapper than the DG400 but the drawback is that it has a 3000h limit which cannot be extended because the manufacturer no longer exist. |
#12
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Thinking about buying a DG400
You first need to find a local mechanic familiar with the engine and
glider. |
#13
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Thinking about buying a DG400
I suggest you join (for the moment) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/pik20/info, and ask European members what it's like to find engine support in Europe. Not all that fly PIK20Es or DG400s are mechanically inclined.
I made the transition to the PIK20E at 110 hrs, and it was my first single place glider. |
#14
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:14:07 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM UTC-4, wrote: First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pure sailplanes is very little (don´t reach 100h). Do you recommend me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the transition? YES. To be able to safely focus on engine management (and especially when things go wrong), flying the glider must be completely automatic. Regardless of power experience, you are not at this point with less than 100 hours. Second point, I´m not very handy, I don´t have any type of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? YES. Identify someone nearby with extensive experience maintaining the type you expect to buy. Hint: There isn't likely to be anybody... And maintenance of these machines by folks not intimately familiar with the type often goes very badly. This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I buy. NO. Any motor-glider will require MUCH more (and more specialized) maintenance as compared to a non-motorized glider. Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO" (multiple offender, 2000 hrs in motor-gliders) I cannot agree that having only 100 hours disqualifies you from motorglider ownership. For the first 200 hours of flying it, simply be very conservative with motor use: do not self launch, do not attempt air starts at less than 3000 AGL and then over a landing field, etc. After all it will fly fine with the motor stowed - as good as a pure glider. You can push this envelope and squeeze these margins as you gain experience. If you are an undisciplined pilot that will take chances with the motor, then you are not a good candidate for motorglider ownership, regardless of hours. If fact you might want to reevaluate flying at all. I do agree that the maintenance requirements for any motorglider are 3x any pure glider. |
#15
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 11:47:36 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:14:07 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM UTC-4, wrote: First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pure sailplanes is very little (don´t reach 100h). Do you recommend me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the transition? YES. To be able to safely focus on engine management (and especially when things go wrong), flying the glider must be completely automatic. Regardless of power experience, you are not at this point with less than 100 hours. Second point, I´m not very handy, I don´t have any type of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? YES. Identify someone nearby with extensive experience maintaining the type you expect to buy. Hint: There isn't likely to be anybody... And maintenance of these machines by folks not intimately familiar with the type often goes very badly. This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I buy. NO. Any motor-glider will require MUCH more (and more specialized) maintenance as compared to a non-motorized glider. Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO" (multiple offender, 2000 hrs in motor-gliders) I cannot agree that having only 100 hours disqualifies you from motorglider ownership. For the first 200 hours of flying it, simply be very conservative with motor use: do not self launch, do not attempt air starts at less than 3000 AGL and then over a landing field, etc. After all it will fly fine with the motor stowed - as good as a pure glider. You can push this envelope and squeeze these margins as you gain experience. If you are an undisciplined pilot that will take chances with the motor, then you are not a good candidate for motorglider ownership, regardless of hours. If fact you might want to reevaluate flying at all. I do agree that the maintenance requirements for any motorglider are 3x any pure glider. There is a big difference between "disqualification" and "inadvisable." Flying high-performance sailplanes is a skill that takes hundreds of hours to become proficient. Self-launching motorgliders requires yet another set of skills. The test of the skills only comes when the pilot is under stress and the margin for error is all but gone. My advice stands: Alfonso should get himself a pure glider and build that critical first 300-500 hours in it before acquiring an MG. The only mitigating circumstance would be if he does not have tows available. Tom |
#16
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:24:14 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 11:47:36 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:14:07 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM UTC-4, wrote: First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pure sailplanes is very little (don´t reach 100h). Do you recommend me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the transition? YES. To be able to safely focus on engine management (and especially when things go wrong), flying the glider must be completely automatic. Regardless of power experience, you are not at this point with less than 100 hours. Second point, I´m not very handy, I don´t have any type of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? YES. Identify someone nearby with extensive experience maintaining the type you expect to buy. Hint: There isn't likely to be anybody... And maintenance of these machines by folks not intimately familiar with the type often goes very badly. This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I buy. NO. Any motor-glider will require MUCH more (and more specialized) maintenance as compared to a non-motorized glider. Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO" (multiple offender, 2000 hrs in motor-gliders) I cannot agree that having only 100 hours disqualifies you from motorglider ownership. For the first 200 hours of flying it, simply be very conservative with motor use: do not self launch, do not attempt air starts at less than 3000 AGL and then over a landing field, etc. After all it will fly fine with the motor stowed - as good as a pure glider. You can push this envelope and squeeze these margins as you gain experience. If you are an undisciplined pilot that will take chances with the motor, then you are not a good candidate for motorglider ownership, regardless of hours. If fact you might want to reevaluate flying at all. I do agree that the maintenance requirements for any motorglider are 3x any pure glider. There is a big difference between "disqualification" and "inadvisable." Flying high-performance sailplanes is a skill that takes hundreds of hours to become proficient. Self-launching motorgliders requires yet another set of skills. The test of the skills only comes when the pilot is under stress and the margin for error is all but gone. My advice stands: Alfonso should get himself a pure glider and build that critical first 300-500 hours in it before acquiring an MG. The only mitigating circumstance would be if he does not have tows available. Tom The test of skills for the motor only comes when you use the motor. That is my point. An auxilliary motorglider with the motor folded is a pure glider. This may require discipline that the pilot may not have - that is my other point. |
#17
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Thinking about buying a DG400
Here is a video I did for a friend looking to buy one recently, if it helps: https://youtu.be/YJbE1urv4Mg
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#18
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 10:49:47 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:24:14 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 11:47:36 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:14:07 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM UTC-4, wrote: First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pure sailplanes is very little (don´t reach 100h). Do you recommend me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the transition? YES. To be able to safely focus on engine management (and especially when things go wrong), flying the glider must be completely automatic. Regardless of power experience, you are not at this point with less than 100 hours. Second point, I´m not very handy, I don´t have any type of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? YES. Identify someone nearby with extensive experience maintaining the type you expect to buy. Hint: There isn't likely to be anybody... And maintenance of these machines by folks not intimately familiar with the type often goes very badly. This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I buy. NO. Any motor-glider will require MUCH more (and more specialized) maintenance as compared to a non-motorized glider. Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO" (multiple offender, 2000 hrs in motor-gliders) I cannot agree that having only 100 hours disqualifies you from motorglider ownership. For the first 200 hours of flying it, simply be very conservative with motor use: do not self launch, do not attempt air starts at less than 3000 AGL and then over a landing field, etc. After all it will fly fine with the motor stowed - as good as a pure glider. You can push this envelope and squeeze these margins as you gain experience. If you are an undisciplined pilot that will take chances with the motor, then you are not a good candidate for motorglider ownership, regardless of hours. If fact you might want to reevaluate flying at all. I do agree that the maintenance requirements for any motorglider are 3x any pure glider. There is a big difference between "disqualification" and "inadvisable." Flying high-performance sailplanes is a skill that takes hundreds of hours to become proficient. Self-launching motorgliders requires yet another set of skills. The test of the skills only comes when the pilot is under stress and the margin for error is all but gone. My advice stands: Alfonso should get himself a pure glider and build that critical first 300-500 hours in it before acquiring an MG. The only mitigating circumstance would be if he does not have tows available. Tom The test of skills for the motor only comes when you use the motor. That is my point. An auxilliary motorglider with the motor folded is a pure glider. This may require discipline that the pilot may not have - that is my other point. You can always buy a MG and not use the motor, flying it as a pure glider. This would be curious choice and a huge waste of money. My comment as "inadvisable" stands and you didn't address it. Advisability is a judgment by an expert, disqualification is a ruling by a bureaucrat. Tom |
#19
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Thinking about buying a DG400
Would you have the same concers if it was an electric self launcher
or sustainer? Chris At 04:45 31 May 2017, 2G wrote: On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 10:49:47 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote: On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:24:14 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 11:47:36 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:14:07 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:59:29 AM UTC-4, wrot= e: First of all, although I am a comerial pilot, my experience in pu= re sailplanes is very little (don=C2=B4t reach 100h). Do you recomme= nd me to wait to have more experience in pure sailplane before making the = transition? =20 YES. To be able to safely focus on engine management (and especially whe= n things go wrong), flying the glider must be completely automatic. Regardle= ss of power experience, you are not at this point with less than 100 hour= s. =20 Second point, I=C2=B4m not very handy, I don=C2=B4t have any type= of experience in mechanics so any problem the plane has I would have to go to a= workshop. Is that a big inconvenience? =20 YES. Identify someone nearby with extensive experience maintaining the t= ype you expect to buy. Hint: There isn't likely to be anybody... And maintenance of these machines by folks not intimately familiar with the type often goes very badly. =20 This problem would happen to me with any type of glider that I bu= y. =20 NO. Any motor-glider will require MUCH more (and more specialized) main= tenance as compared to a non-motorized glider. =20 Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO" (multiple offender, 2000 hrs in motor-glid= ers) =20 I cannot agree that having only 100 hours disqualifies you from motor= glider ownership. For the first 200 hours of flying it, simply be very cons= ervative with motor use: do not self launch, do not attempt air starts at l= ess than 3000 AGL and then over a landing field, etc. After all it will fly= fine with the motor stowed - as good as a pure glider. You can push this e= nvelope and squeeze these margins as you gain experience. If you are an un= disciplined pilot that will take chances with the motor, then you are not a= good candidate for motorglider ownership, regardless of hours. If fact you= might want to reevaluate flying at all.=20 =20 I do agree that the maintenance requirements for any motorglider are = 3x any pure glider. =20 There is a big difference between "disqualification" and "inadvisable."= Flying high-performance sailplanes is a skill that takes hundreds of hours= to become proficient. Self-launching motorgliders requires yet another set= of skills. The test of the skills only comes when the pilot is under stres= s and the margin for error is all but gone. My advice stands: Alfonso shoul= d get himself a pure glider and build that critical first 300-500 hours in = it before acquiring an MG. The only mitigating circumstance would be if he = does not have tows available. =20 Tom =20 The test of skills for the motor only comes when you use the motor. That = is my point. An auxilliary motorglider with the motor folded is a pure gli= der. This may require discipline that the pilot may not have - that is my o= ther point. You can always buy a MG and not use the motor, flying it as a pure glider. = This would be curious choice and a huge waste of money. My comment as "inad= visable" stands and you didn't address it. Advisability is a judgment by an= expert, disqualification is a ruling by a bureaucrat. Tom |
#20
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Thinking about buying a DG400
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:30:06 AM UTC-4, Chris Short wrote:
Would you have the same concers if it was an electric self launcher or sustainer? Yes. |
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