A new direction for an old thread: Crosswind landings

I meant to clarify in one of my
original posts that I meant that doing a base leg
using a sideslip, with the wing away from the airport
down, gets the glider further from the runway then
doing it with inner wing down instead.

Oh, and I just realized that if I use a sideslip
instead of a crab on final because I want
"to keep a stabilized final approach" I might
end up undershooting if it was a close call.
An example of "negative transfer." This is a great "correlation"
question for a student pilot!


In article ,
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
Don Johnstone
wrote:

What puzzles me is that we fly around all day using
the first method [wings level] to achieve our required track, why
complicate things near the ground.

The most common answer is that it's a tricky timing issue to
swing the nose at just the right time for touchdown. No
matter what you do, things at the ground are more
complicated than in the air. You have to meet conflicting
requirements imposed by the ground and the crosswind.

Slipping is a bit more stabilized between approach and
touchdown and is preferred by some.



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Mark J. Boyd

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

I still don't understand this comment. Your base leg (and
distance from the airport) is exactly what it is. You can
fly that base leg coordinated, or slipping to either side.

The difference is that slipping with the wing away from the airport
down, you can't see the runway anymore, which is a bad thing. On the
other hand, slipping to the other side, you won't see the approach,
which is also a bad thing. You can avoid this dilemma by not slipping on
base at all, so you can see both, and spare the slip for the final. If
you misjudged your height so badly that you need a slip at all, that is.

Stefan

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

You've pointed to differences in visibility, and I certainly
agree there are such differences, but the original post says
slipping one way or the other changes your distance from the
airport.

I've understood the original post, but gave it that different twist to
express my opinion that slipping on base is a bad idea in my opinion.
The fact that a proper slip doesn't change the track is so trivial that
I hope we won't have to discuss it.

Stefan

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
Stefan wrote:


The difference is that slipping with the wing away from the airport
down, you can't see the runway anymore, which is a bad thing. On the
other hand, slipping to the other side, you won't see the approach,
which is also a bad thing. You can avoid this dilemma by not slipping on
base at all, so you can see both, and spare the slip for the final. If
you misjudged your height so badly that you need a slip at all, that is.


You've pointed to differences in visibility, and I certainly
agree there are such differences, but the original post says
slipping one way or the other changes your distance from the
airport.

I'm guessing he means it changes the distance compared to flying the
same heading, but wings level and coordinated.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

A pattern slip with inside rudder and the outside wing further down than
usual sounds a lot like a skid to me. I don't want any part of it.
-Bob Korves

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote:

I meant to clarify in one of my
original posts that I meant that doing a base leg
using a sideslip, with the wing away from the airport
down, gets the glider further from the runway then
doing it with inner wing down instead.

I still don't understand this comment. Your base leg (and
distance from the airport) is exactly what it is. You can
fly that base leg coordinated, or slipping to either side.
Flying in a slip will cause you to lose altitude faster, but
won't change your distance from the airport.

I agree that with the wing down away from the airport, it's
easier to make a turn away from the airport than if you slip
wing down towards the airport. Is that what you're saying?

Todd P. Wrote: "Forward slips to either side are not skids. In a typical
left pattern, this would be left rudder and right
aileron/wing down on base. "

Just checking...but do you mean that in a left pattern, you reccomend
turning to the left, then rolling the aircraft into a slip the opposite
direction?? If you do, I think that is wrong. I fly most of my patterns with
a more rounded base and final and if I were in a left pattern, slipping in
a turn to final to the left, the rudder would be nearly neutral or slightly
biased to the right, and the left wing would be down...Opposite of what you
wrote...

Am I confused here..??


Steve.

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"Bob Korves" bkorves@winfirstDECIMALcom wrote:

A pattern slip with inside rudder and the outside wing further down than
usual sounds a lot like a skid to me. I don't want any part of it.

Forward slips to either side are not skids. In a typical
left pattern, this would be left rudder and right
aileron/wing down on base.

However there are some good reasons not to slip outside wing
down that have nothing to do with whether it's a skid. The
main one is that, even if there's no wind, you would have to
reverse the bank to turn the corner onto final. Slipping
inside wing down makes that turn easier, and if you are
slipping to kill altitude, you can do that throughout the
turn.


I agree that a slip is not a skid (though really they are the same except
for your frame of reference) and that straight slips with either wing down
will work. It's the transition from an "outside wing down" base leg slip
with extra inside rudder to a turn to final that is developing too slowly
because of the outside wing being too low... well, it just seems to me that
the slip could very easily change into a skid to final. If the slip was
correctly ended and followed by a coordinated turn to final, then no
problem, but if one tried to do it all at once then the temptation would be
to increase rudder into the turn even more than the slip required, and now
we have a potential problem. Am I missing something?
-Bob