UNITED AIR LINES TO LAY OFF 950 PILOTS

Andy Hawkins wrote in
:

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
Me too, she was the best thing to happen to the UK since the V2.

Oh I dunno. What about the four day week?


Well, it was probably an imprivement on the 2 days a week the kids
recovering from alchohol poisoning are working now.


bertie

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
Well, it was probably an imprivement on the 2 days a week the kids
recovering from alchohol poisoning are working now.

Nah, they don't need to work. There's enough government hand-outs to pay for
the next 2 litre bottle of White Lightning.

Failing that, there'll be an old lady around the corner any minute.

Andy

Andy Hawkins wrote in
:

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
Well, it was probably an imprivement on the 2 days a week the kids
recovering from alchohol poisoning are working now.

Nah, they don't need to work. There's enough government hand-outs to
pay for the next 2 litre bottle of White Lightning.


As it should be.



Failing that, there'll be an old lady around the corner any minute.

OK, you lost me now.



Bertie

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
OK, you lost me now.

What better source of cash than some old dear walking home with her pension
money?

Andy

Andy Hawkins wrote in
:

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
OK, you lost me now.

What better source of cash than some old dear walking home with her
pension money?

Ah, OK. Well, flying *is* expensive there.



Bertie

Andy Hawkins wrote in
:

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
OK, you lost me now.

What better source of cash than some old dear walking home with her
pension money?


Best watch out for these, though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygy7UDADXDg



Bertie

Hi,

In article ,
Bertie the wrote:
Ah, OK. Well, flying *is* expensive there.

It sure is...



Andy

On Jun 28, 9:40*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:
Its wonderful to hear the opinion of people who have no idea how
economics and market financing works. Futures are key to the financial
stability of the industry. If you can't sell futures you don't know
what price you are guaranteed and you can't finance anything. Futures
contracts are somethin you can take to the bank.

Futures, like virtually all speculation based on worthless paper, are a form
of legalized gambling.

Of course that it totally false. If you don't sell the future when it
comes due you'll find your yard full of oil barrels. Now your broker
may help ensure that doesn't happen but you are getting a real, legal
contract to purchase commodities. Its like signing an agreement to
purchase a house. 30 days later after the escrow closes you can't walk
away and say "oh, it was just paper". A contract is tangible.

-Robert

Recently, Nomen Nescio posted:

From: gatt

100% agreement! But, I don't think it's the line workers, the
welders, electricians, circuit board builders, etc that decided to
send manufacturing overseas. It was the business types.

Right now, there are over 200 available jobs for trained machinists.

If you're talking nationwide, that's not very impressive. Another way to
look at it is that, out of the 200,000 or so trained machinists that lost
their jobs to outsourcing over the last few years (more than that in our
region alone, so I'm not being all that sarcastic), not even 1% of them
are willing to take those "available jobs". It says more about the nature
of those jobs than the workers.

One machine shop owner, who I know, had NO interest in outsourcing.
After having to turn down a LOT of work, it started to look better.

Since you are in agreement with gatt that outsourcing was the decision of
"the business types", a simple "yes" would have sufficed.

Hey, man, I know my way around Little Wing and wasted my vote on
Perot too.

Oh, YOU were the other one.

Nope. that was me (I know my way around Little Wing, too).

Well, the VOTE sure isn't working! What's your suggestion?

Stop electing people who take money from special interests. I hate to
sound like Lou Dobbs here, but it's time to flush the toilet.

Nice idea. Ain't gonna happen.

It can happen if the public gets the will to make it happen. And, that
seems to be happening, or it wouldn't be a plank in the platform of all
the available choices this year.

Maybe we need to define "oil speculator".
I define is as "someone who is not purchasing oil for their own use,
but only to profit from market fluctuations"
You could, I suppose, say that ALL energy users who are trying to
buy, at the best price, are "speculators". But I refer to them a
"shoppers".

There is no need to lump these two together, AFAICT. Those trying to buy
at the best price for their own use are not buying in the same quantities
as the speculators, and are also buying after the market price per barrel
has been set. Speculators are clearly influencing the price of oil.

Neil

Recently, Nomen Nescio posted:

From: "Neil Gould"

Right now, there are over 200 available jobs for trained machinists.

If you're talking nationwide, that's not very impressive. Another
way to look at it is that, out of the 200,000 or so trained
machinists that lost their jobs to outsourcing over the last few
years (more than that in our region alone, so I'm not being all that
sarcastic), not even 1% of them are willing to take those "available
jobs". It says more about the nature of those jobs than the workers.

I should have added "In my immediate area".

I owned a machine shop (sold it and retired 10 yrs ago). Even then,
it was nearly impossible to find skilled machinists. Especially in the
area of precision aerospace (our specialty). It's even worse now
since the younger generation isn't going into the machining field.
I put together a good crew, but it took a lot of work and none of them
were under age 35.

Precision aerospace is atypical of machine shops, so it is no surprise
that you had a limited selection of "skilled machinists" to choose from. I
worked my way through engineering school in the 60s as an inspector of jet
engine and rocket motor parts, and even then most of the machinists were
over 35. I'd say it's the nature of that kind of work, because in other
area shops the machinists were quite young, a good number of them right
out of high school.

Don't get me started on the nature of the American worker. My
opinion would not be considered very flattering.

I do get that sense from you. ;-)

Since you are in agreement with gatt that outsourcing was the
decision of "the business types", a simple "yes" would have sufficed.

I was pointing out that there is a difference between "need" and
"want".

Well, I think that people make such decisions based on their perception of
need, and often a 3rd party would interpret those decisions as instead
based on want. And, they'd often be right.

Regarding getting away from government controlled by special interests, I
said:
It can happen if the public gets the will to make it happen. And,
that seems to be happening, or it wouldn't be a plank in the
platform of all the available choices this year.

To repeat myself. Nice idea. Ain't gonna happen.

It won't be an instantaneous change, but I don't think we have a lot of
options to continue on that path. So, we'll see.

There is no need to lump these two together, AFAICT. Those trying to
buy at the best price for their own use are not buying in the same
quantities as the speculators,

Actually, the end user is buying in EXACTLY the same quantities as the
speculators.

Then, I'm unclear as to what you mean either by "end user" or "the same
quantities". I've never bought a barrel of oil in my life, and likely
never will, but I do look for the best price I can get when I buy gas.

and are also buying after the market price per barrel
has been set.

Nope. The end user IS setting the market price.
The "speculators" would be standing on the street with a tin cup
within a month if the end user just said "No, I'm not buying at that
price".

Different issue. The speculators would just lose their bet, and possibly
their shirt.

But, when I buy gas, the price I have to pay is already in response to the
price of a barrel of oil, even though the fuel in the station's tank is
the same as it was the day before. Whether or not I make that purchase
doesn't matter in the short term. So, once again, I don't know who you
think "end users" are, but I think I qualify as one.

Speculators are clearly influencing the price of oil.

Clearly, they influence the price. Both up and down. But it has NO
effect on the AVERAGE price. That's supply and demand.

That's a different statement, and over a longer period (say a year or
two), I'd agree. But, what has been going on since the beginning of the
year is not driven by supply and demand, as there is no shortage of supply
and the demand has steadily dropped. Every holiday this year has seen a
lower-than average number of autos travelling on the road.

Don't get me started on the nature of the ralationship between oil
companies and the ties to government. It wouldn't be flattering.

Neil