FAA Small AIrcraft Directorate Position on Experimental AirworthinessCertificates

I spoke with the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders yesterday regarding Experimental Airworthiness Certificates
for gliders. In at least several states and particularly Arizona all
gliders are having their Experimental Airworthiness certificates
reviewed. Due to an issue causing my DG505 to have its Standard
Airworthiness certificate recently revoked, which I further lost on
Federal appeal in front of the NTSB (see my posting June 8th 2010),
due to bad paperwork supplied by AMS Flight, d.o.o., I was caused to
engage the FAA in this dialogue.

I was informed by the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders that he recently had conversations with his supervisors in
Washington, D.C. and that in order to obtain or retain an Experimental
Airworthiness certificate the glider must be engaged in "racing" and
"preparation for racing". He said an agenda of racing events must be
supplied to the FAA at the local FSDO level at the time of issuance or
revision of paperwork. I was told that the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate was NOT meant to be used for "fun flying".

I asked if badge flying would be considered as a type of racing. He
said that one could attempt to engage the local FSDO with this to see
if in their judgement it would be valid, but he would not commit one
way or the other. Having recently engaged the FAA in federal court I
have found that they can be a bit of a sticky wicket. You may want to
look at the code on the definition of Experimental Certification if
you plan on obtaining or maintaining this type of certification. An
electronic version of the code is easily reached online.

Neil AZ

Worth noting that this applies to Experimental - Exhibition
certification, not Experimental - Amateur Built

On Jun 15, 9:17*pm, NG wrote:
I spoke with the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders yesterday regarding Experimental Airworthiness Certificates
for gliders. *In at least several states and particularly Arizona all
gliders are having their Experimental Airworthiness certificates
reviewed. *Due to an issue causing my DG505 to have its Standard
Airworthiness certificate recently revoked, which I further lost on
Federal appeal in front of the NTSB (see my posting June 8th 2010),
due to bad paperwork supplied by AMS Flight, d.o.o., I was caused to
engage the FAA in this dialogue.

I was informed by the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders that he recently had conversations with his supervisors in
Washington, D.C. and that in order to obtain or retain an Experimental
Airworthiness certificate the glider must be engaged in "racing" and
"preparation for racing". *He said an agenda of racing events must be
supplied to the FAA at the local FSDO level at the time of issuance or
revision of paperwork. *I was told that the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate was NOT meant to be used for "fun flying".

I asked if badge flying would be considered as a type of racing. *He
said that one could attempt to engage the local FSDO with this to see
if in their judgement it would be valid, but he would not commit one
way or the other. *Having recently engaged the FAA in federal court I
have found that they can be a bit of a sticky wicket. *You may want to
look at the code on the definition of Experimental Certification if
you plan on obtaining or maintaining this type of certification. *An
electronic version of the code is easily reached online.

Neil AZ

This sounds scary for us that have not flown in a contest for 15
years.
Fred TX

"Fred" wrote

This sounds scary for us that have not flown in a contest for
15 years.

How about Experimental Developmental, or whatever that is for when you
invent a dodad for the glider, and are testing and refining the dodad?
Could that be made to fly, so to speak?
--
Jim in NC

On Jun 15, 8:17*pm, NG wrote:
I spoke with the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders yesterday regarding Experimental Airworthiness Certificates
for gliders. *In at least several states and particularly Arizona all
gliders are having their Experimental Airworthiness certificates
reviewed. *Due to an issue causing my DG505 to have its Standard
Airworthiness certificate recently revoked, which I further lost on
Federal appeal in front of the NTSB (see my posting June 8th 2010),
due to bad paperwork supplied by AMS Flight, d.o.o., I was caused to
engage the FAA in this dialogue.

I was informed by the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders that he recently had conversations with his supervisors in
Washington, D.C. and that in order to obtain or retain an Experimental
Airworthiness certificate the glider must be engaged in "racing" and
"preparation for racing". *He said an agenda of racing events must be
supplied to the FAA at the local FSDO level at the time of issuance or
revision of paperwork. *I was told that the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate was NOT meant to be used for "fun flying".

I asked if badge flying would be considered as a type of racing. *He
said that one could attempt to engage the local FSDO with this to see
if in their judgement it would be valid, but he would not commit one
way or the other. *Having recently engaged the FAA in federal court I
have found that they can be a bit of a sticky wicket. *You may want to
look at the code on the definition of Experimental Certification if
you plan on obtaining or maintaining this type of certification. *An
electronic version of the code is easily reached online.

Neil AZ

Download yourself a copy of FAA Order 8130.2 with Chg 5.

Read Section 10 for comprehension. Everything that applies to ALL and
Group I applies to you.

See para 161b(35).

(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical
restrictions when conducted in
preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to
qualify for Federal Aeronautique
International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These
flights may only take place as
defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific
FAI or SSA event. The pilot in
command must submit a description of the intended route and/or
geographical area intended to be flown
to the local FSDO.
(Applicability: Group I, gliders only)

I could spend two life times becoming more proficient and chasing FAI
and SSA Awards. Let's see, there's badges, records, diplomas,
competition, and the OLC. Much too much to race for to only fly for
fun. Soaring is a wonderful sport, isn't it? One real concern, check
with your life insurance underwriter about flying gliders and
experimental aircraft.

We'll be looking for your flights on OLC.

Happy racing,

Frank Whiteley

On Jun 15, 7:29*pm, Tony wrote:
Worth noting that this applies to Experimental - Exhibition
certification, not Experimental - Amateur Built

Thanks, you beat me to it.

Bob K.

Thanks Frank and Bob:

The FAA small aircraft directorate did refer me to document 8130.2 F
and 8100.8C regarding these same issues. I will study them as you
have also suggested.

Thanks!

Neil

On Jun 15, 11:05*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:17*pm, NG wrote:



I spoke with the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders yesterday regarding Experimental Airworthiness Certificates
for gliders. *In at least several states and particularly Arizona all
gliders are having their Experimental Airworthiness certificates
reviewed. *Due to an issue causing my DG505 to have its Standard
Airworthiness certificate recently revoked, which I further lost on
Federal appeal in front of the NTSB (see my posting June 8th 2010),
due to bad paperwork supplied by AMS Flight, d.o.o., I was caused to
engage the FAA in this dialogue.

I was informed by the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders that he recently had conversations with his supervisors in
Washington, D.C. and that in order to obtain or retain an Experimental
Airworthiness certificate the glider must be engaged in "racing" and
"preparation for racing". *He said an agenda of racing events must be
supplied to the FAA at the local FSDO level at the time of issuance or
revision of paperwork. *I was told that the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate was NOT meant to be used for "fun flying".

I asked if badge flying would be considered as a type of racing. *He
said that one could attempt to engage the local FSDO with this to see
if in their judgement it would be valid, but he would not commit one
way or the other. *Having recently engaged the FAA in federal court I
have found that they can be a bit of a sticky wicket. *You may want to
look at the code on the definition of Experimental Certification if
you plan on obtaining or maintaining this type of certification. *An
electronic version of the code is easily reached online.

Neil AZ

Download yourself a copy of FAA Order 8130.2 with Chg 5.

Read Section 10 for comprehension. *Everything that applies to ALL and
Group I applies to you.

See para 161b(35).

(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical
restrictions when conducted in
preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to
qualify for Federal Aeronautique
International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These
flights may only take place as
defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific
FAI or SSA event. The pilot in
command must submit a description of the intended route and/or
geographical area intended to be flown
to the local FSDO.
(Applicability: Group I, gliders only)

I could spend two life times becoming more proficient and chasing FAI
and SSA Awards. *Let's see, there's badges, records, diplomas,
competition, and the OLC. *Much too much to race for to only fly for
fun. *Soaring is a wonderful sport, isn't it? *One real concern, check
with your life insurance underwriter about flying gliders and
experimental aircraft.

We'll be looking for your flights on OLC.

Happy racing,

Frank Whiteley

One wonders what this is really all about. So far, it appears easily
dealt with. But restive bureaucracies are always a concern.

Am I correct in my understanding that none of this applies to exp -
air racing certificated aircraft licensed before 1992 -- that is,
those of us without annual program letter requirements?

-T8

On Jun 16, 8:00*am, T8 wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:05*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:



On Jun 15, 8:17*pm, NG wrote:

I spoke with the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders yesterday regarding Experimental Airworthiness Certificates
for gliders. *In at least several states and particularly Arizona all
gliders are having their Experimental Airworthiness certificates
reviewed. *Due to an issue causing my DG505 to have its Standard
Airworthiness certificate recently revoked, which I further lost on
Federal appeal in front of the NTSB (see my posting June 8th 2010),
due to bad paperwork supplied by AMS Flight, d.o.o., I was caused to
engage the FAA in this dialogue.

I was informed by the head of the FAA Small Aircraft Directorate for
gliders that he recently had conversations with his supervisors in
Washington, D.C. and that in order to obtain or retain an Experimental
Airworthiness certificate the glider must be engaged in "racing" and
"preparation for racing". *He said an agenda of racing events must be
supplied to the FAA at the local FSDO level at the time of issuance or
revision of paperwork. *I was told that the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate was NOT meant to be used for "fun flying".

I asked if badge flying would be considered as a type of racing. *He
said that one could attempt to engage the local FSDO with this to see
if in their judgement it would be valid, but he would not commit one
way or the other. *Having recently engaged the FAA in federal court I
have found that they can be a bit of a sticky wicket. *You may want to
look at the code on the definition of Experimental Certification if
you plan on obtaining or maintaining this type of certification. *An
electronic version of the code is easily reached online.

Neil AZ

Download yourself a copy of FAA Order 8130.2 with Chg 5.

Read Section 10 for comprehension. *Everything that applies to ALL and
Group I applies to you.

See para 161b(35).

(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical
restrictions when conducted in
preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to
qualify for Federal Aeronautique
International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These
flights may only take place as
defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific
FAI or SSA event. The pilot in
command must submit a description of the intended route and/or
geographical area intended to be flown
to the local FSDO.
(Applicability: Group I, gliders only)

I could spend two life times becoming more proficient and chasing FAI
and SSA Awards. *Let's see, there's badges, records, diplomas,
competition, and the OLC. *Much too much to race for to only fly for
fun. *Soaring is a wonderful sport, isn't it? *One real concern, check
with your life insurance underwriter about flying gliders and
experimental aircraft.

We'll be looking for your flights on OLC.

Happy racing,

Frank Whiteley

One wonders what this is really all about. *So far, it appears easily
dealt with. *But restive bureaucracies are always a concern.

Am I correct in my understanding that none of this applies to exp -
air racing certificated aircraft licensed before 1992 -- that is,
those of us without annual program letter requirements?

-T8

The precise pre-/post-moratorium dates are in the order. Section 10,
para 155d.

d. Experimental Airworthiness Certification Moratorium. On July 9,
1993, a moratorium
was established because of a dramatic increase in applications for
special airworthiness certificates
and SFAs for non-U.S.-manufactured aircraft that did not hold TCs
issued under § 21.29. The
moratorium was lifted on August 18, 1993, with interim guidance
provided to certificate these aircraft.
Although the moratorium was established for non-U.S.-manufactured
aircraft, this policy will be used
when issuing a special airworthiness certificate for the experimental
purpose(s) of exhibition or air
racing, regardless of the country of manufacture.

Para 155e gives the pre-moratorium exemption

e. Effectivity. Aircraft that received original airworthiness
certification before July 9, 1993, are
NOT affected by this order unless the original airworthiness
certification purpose changes, for example,
from R&D to exhibition. Those aircraft, except for purpose changes,
will not be affected until the FAA
works with the public to determine the best strategy to certificate
all experimental exhibition and/or air
racing aircraft in accordance with the new policy. The policy
established in this order will not be used
in these cases unless specifically requested by the applicant.

Frank Whiteley

This sounds scary for us that have not flown in a contest for 15
years.
Fred TX-

This is obviously a dastardly plot by the SRA to force all the owners
of nice, new, shiny racing gliders to show up at races and compete,
thereby injecting new life in the (soon to be) growing sport of glider
racing! A Red Bull sponsorship, along with a TV show on ESPN (and hot
chicks in bikinis) is sure to follow....

For those who still insist on not showing up at contests, just list
all the SSA and local contest dates on your program letter, filling in
any blank dates with whatever badge legs you still need, and finally
declaring a random OLC task as a backup on any remaining free days.
Remember to keep a day free every other year for your flight review,
then update the list daily (based on the latest wx forecast and size
of the Gulf Oil Spill) to your friendly neighborhood FSDO, who will be
ecstatic at your level of compliance - promotion for sure!

Or, if any of you proud owners of a nice new ASG-29 or LS-10 don't
feel up to keeping your paperwork straight with the Feds, I'll be
happy to trade you my nice pre-moratorium 3-diamond LS6, which still
does not need a full time secretary to stay legal and in which you can
still fly for fun...

This sure makes me proud to be an American - home of the best
bureaucracy money can buy!

Kirk
66
"Racing to Fly, Flying to Race"