Buying a Glider

There a many misunderstandings about expimentals. I'm not the expert either, but I am often amazed by the owners that think they can legally experiment with changes to an experimental glider.

An experimental glider has to be maintained per its operating limitations instructions, which usually says per manufacturers instructions.

Experimental homebuilt is a different animal than experimental aircraft that are manufactured.

I have a PIK 20 with an experimental certificated, and I do an annual for the owner of a standard certificated PIK 20.
As mentioned before, I depends on how it was certified when imported.

"Within the glider community, unlike GA it would seem, there appears to be no prejudice for or against standard versus experimental"

One prejudice could be that an experimental glider should not be used by commercial operators or club training/casual use.

You are absolutely right about GA has a "prejudice" when Experimental is seen on an aircraft. Learning now the Glider community sees things. lots to learn.


On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:31:22 AM UTC-5, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
It seems, and I am certainly not an expert, that a particular glider being experimental or standard has to do more with the first owner's "preference" when first imported. Or maybe how the local FSDO handles things (or how much they know/care about gliders).

I once owned a DG-101G which was standard. A sister ship on my gliderport a few serial numbers away was experimental. I looked up all the DG-100/101's on the FAA web site and there was zero rhyme or reason on whether they were standard or experimental.

Within the glider community, unlike GA it would seem, there appears to be no prejudice for or against standard versus experimental. Very, very, very few gliders were hand-build by individuals which to many in the non-glider aviation realm is the definition of "experimental".

I will leave it to others to explain their feelings on the pros/cons of standard versus experimental.

John OHM Ω

BTW a ASW27B is at the top of my list of gliders I want to own.

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:31:22 AM UTC-5, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
It seems, and I am certainly not an expert, that a particular glider being experimental or standard has to do more with the first owner's "preference" when first imported. Or maybe how the local FSDO handles things (or how much they know/care about gliders).

I once owned a DG-101G which was standard. A sister ship on my gliderport a few serial numbers away was experimental. I looked up all the DG-100/101's on the FAA web site and there was zero rhyme or reason on whether they were standard or experimental.

Within the glider community, unlike GA it would seem, there appears to be no prejudice for or against standard versus experimental. Very, very, very few gliders were hand-build by individuals which to many in the non-glider aviation realm is the definition of "experimental".

I will leave it to others to explain their feelings on the pros/cons of standard versus experimental.

John OHM Ω

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 10:19:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
There a many misunderstandings about expimentals. I'm not the expert either, but I am often amazed by the owners that think they can legally experiment with changes to an experimental glider.

An experimental glider has to be maintained per its operating limitations instructions, which usually says per manufacturers instructions.

Experimental homebuilt is a different animal than experimental aircraft that are manufactured.

I have a PIK 20 with an experimental certificated, and I do an annual for the owner of a standard certificated PIK 20.
As mentioned before, I depends on how it was certified when imported.

If one is intending to do modifications it is much easier to do in the experimental category. Such changes likely require moving the ship back to Phase 1 flight test until test requirements are flown off, then returning to phase 2 flight ops.
I have moved ships to experimental from standard for this purpose and then left in experimental.
UH

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 8:17:39 AM UTC-6, ripacheco1967 wrote:
BTW a ASW27B is at the top of my list of gliders I want to own.

The last time I checked about half of the 27's are licensed Standard and it just depends on who imported the glider and how much time and energy they wanted to spend with the FAA or a DAR. Keep in mind most experimental gliders are in the Exhibition and Racing category and not the amateur built category. There is a difference! You can switch from standard to experimental in about one afternoon and 600 bucks to a DAR. In Practical terms most of us maintain out gliders to high standards and the big difference sometimes boils down to your life insurance. Many policies will forbid flying an experimental aircraft.

The 27 is a great and affordable choice!

Good luck

Insurance is an issue then.
Reading another thread, a poster indicated his glider was denied insurance despite being "Standard" .. this implies is easier for insurance companies to deny hull insurance on "Experimental" gliders... just as in GA... good to know.

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 10:37:04 AM UTC-5, K m wrote:
On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 8:17:39 AM UTC-6, ripacheco1967 wrote:
BTW a ASW27B is at the top of my list of gliders I want to own.

The last time I checked about half of the 27's are licensed Standard and it just depends on who imported the glider and how much time and energy they wanted to spend with the FAA or a DAR. Keep in mind most experimental gliders are in the Exhibition and Racing category and not the amateur built category. There is a difference! You can switch from standard to experimental in about one afternoon and 600 bucks to a DAR. In Practical terms most of us maintain out gliders to high standards and the big difference sometimes boils down to your life insurance. Many policies will forbid flying an experimental aircraft.

The 27 is a great and affordable choice!

Good luck

I've never had them ask if it was standard or experimental.

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 1:38:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I've never had them ask if it was standard or experimental.

That is good to know. And hopefully people from insurance companies are smart enough to get a history of the plane with the N-number.... to verify before purchase.

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:19:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:

...I am often amazed by the owners that think they can legally experiment with changes to an experimental glider...

To expand slightly on this:

It depends entirely on what sort of "experimental" we're talking about, and the operating limitations attached to the airworthiness certificate for the specific glider in question.

First off are experimental amateur-built sailplanes such as the ones I promote, make kits for, and train people to fabricate and assemble. For these, experimentation is definitely baked into the boilerplate text of the operating limitations issued by FAA and designated inspectors. Anybody can legally work on them, and major repairs, modifications, and alterations are relatively straightforward.

As for experimental, exhibition and experimental, racing, the operating limitations are much less uniform than for amateur-built, and much more subject to the discretion of the inspector and context of the issuance. And they are definitely negotiable. For some they say that the aircraft must be maintained per the manufacturer's instructions. But for some others this proviso is omitted, or has actually been removed in an amended re-issuance of the operating limitations.

Thanks, Bob K.