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Have you ever...



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 10th 05, 04:00 PM
Dan Luke
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...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With
that person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)


Oh, yeah.

An acquaintence of mine owns a twin. His idea of recurrent ME training
is to get a BFR from a good ol' boy CFI buddy who will sign his book
after a sight-seeing tour followed by a couple of beers.

Insurance? That's for suckers.

Maintenance? Hell, it flies, doesn't it? He's got another good ol' boy
who does his annuals.

I'm convinced that if he lost these good ol' boy connections, he'd
simply stop bothering with the paperwork and keep on flying. I can kind
of understand his attitude--he's pushing 70 and single--but no way I'd
fly with him.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM


  #12  
Old April 10th 05, 04:17 PM
Alan
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Absolutely! Actually a friend of mine. He commuted in his plane every
day and would "brag" to me about how it was so rote that he didn't
feel the need to preflight each time. He then related the "funny"
story about how one morning he took off and just as he reached pattern
altitude the engine began to sputter. He realized that he hadn't put
fuel in for a while and probably didn't have any fuel left and
managed to turn it back to the airport to land. Also, since he had
been strapped for cash, he had not had an annual for a couple of
years. I told him that no way was I going to fly with him. He was
insulted and wouldn't acknowledge me after that. Just found out he
sold the airplane and I was relieved both for him and any potential
passengers.


On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 04:32:55 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.


  #13  
Old April 10th 05, 05:10 PM
Grumman-581
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"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!


He learned from Darwin... One of the best (and most unforgiving)
instructors... Just remember, which came first, pilots or the FAA/CAA?



  #14  
Old April 10th 05, 05:21 PM
jsmith
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There were many pilots trained during WWII who did not apply for
civilian pilot licenses who continued to fly as civilians following
their separation from service. My father was one of them. He had flown
single engine seaplanes up through multiengine piston transports, but
never bothered to get an FAA certificate.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!


Grumman-581 wrote:
He learned from Darwin... One of the best (and most unforgiving)
instructors... Just remember, which came first, pilots or the FAA/CAA?


  #15  
Old April 10th 05, 05:48 PM
Bob Fry
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"Jay Honeck" writes:

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)


A couple of times. It doesn't happen often 'cause remembering mommy's
advice I usually don't consider flights with strangers.

The last time I turned down a flight was when I was looking for an
airplane to buy. In that process one does encounter questionable
planes and pilots and they usually are paired with each other. So
when I politely refused one owner's eager offer of a flight it had as
much to do with the plane as the pilot.

The other time was years ago when I was in a flying club. There, you
get to know the club members and based on their behavior on the ground
you can extrapolate to their behavior in the air.

  #16  
Old April 10th 05, 05:58 PM
Bob Fry
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1 and he looked pretty shocked when I said, "No thanks, I
1 don't know how you fly!"

2 After a rather heated
2 discussion he ended up taking remedial training.
2 We don't speak much anymore...

3 I told him that no way was I going to fly with him. He was
3 insulted and wouldn't acknowledge me after that.

Whoa! Aren't there other ways of getting out of a risky flight?? You
know, think back to your dating days..."oh, I can't go out with you
then, I'm cleaning out my cat's litter box that night..."

Or was it only me?
  #17  
Old April 10th 05, 06:48 PM
Jimmy B.
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Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)


Yes, I have refused to fly with people who I felt were unsafe. I've
also refused to fly as PIC with people who I felt were unsafe. Being
PIC does nothing for you if the other person grabs the yoke on short
final and you both wind up as a flaming ball of wreckage.



I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.

  #18  
Old April 10th 05, 07:25 PM
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and he looked pretty shocked when I said, "No thanks, I
don't know how you fly!"


Bob Fry wrote:
Whoa! Aren't there other ways of getting out of a risky flight?? You
know, think back to your dating days..."oh, I can't go out with you
then, I'm cleaning out my cat's litter box that night..."

Or was it only me?


It would have been different if I kind of knew this guy or knew others
who know him. I'd only seen him at the airport once before ... he pulled
up in his car to talk with me (translation: interrupt) while I was
preflighting. I was courteous and stopped for a few minutes to talk,
even though I don't interrupt others when I see them preflighting,
especially people I don't even know. When he walked up the second time,
and just ASSUMED that because we'd talked once, I would go with him--
"SO, when are we going flying??"--I could have made a nicer-sounding
excuse, but my deliberate curt response hopefully conveyed that just
because we had one "good morning, nice day isn't it?" conversation
doesn't mean that I'm going to climb into an airplane with what is
still, when you think about putting your life in their hands, a TOTAL
STRANGER. Again, it's a no-brainer that you don't take *car* rides from
total strangers ... why are airplane rides any different?
  #19  
Old April 10th 05, 09:49 PM
Fred G. Black
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Jay,

Good call. Reading your list, I'd say any any 2 of these would be more
than enough to justify not going along on the flight. I wouldn't have
gone either.

Regards,

Fred G. Black, PP-ASEL,G Sundowner C-FJQG @ CYOW
18 Perrin Ave Phone: (613) 823-6017
Nepean, ON, K2J 2Y4 Email:

Jay Honeck wrote:
My experience was actually a combination of factors.

- The aircraft was a high-performance home-built (not built by the
current owner)
- The pilot had recently purchased the aircraft
- The pilot has an aggressive, somewhat unpredictable personality
- I'd flown with this pilot before, and was taken aback at the way they
skated on radio and standard pattern procedures.
- The weather was predicted to be marginal along the route of flight

For the first time, ever, I felt better staying on the ground.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #20  
Old April 10th 05, 10:02 PM
G. Sylvester
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Bob Fry wrote:
The other time was years ago when I was in a flying club. There, you
get to know the club members and based on their behavior on the ground
you can extrapolate to their behavior in the air.


that's funny because on the ground (especially in rental cars ;-) ) I
have this reputation of being a lunatic....ok not that bad. ;-) I like
to push things but I know where the line is and stay well well clear of
going near it. For instance, when I ski, I like to go fast-ish and
don't mind jumping off of 8 foot cornices.
If I don't know where the line is, I don't even think about
going near it. I know my limitations. In the air though, I am
unbelievably conservative ever since day one. I do everything very
formerly, follow the rules, follow the standard procedures, don't
even go close to thinking I'm a test pilot. Well my friends know
this but others probably think I should be institutionalized.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to convince my brother (a neurologist)
and his wife (a psychiatrist) of this.

But you are correct, generally the crazy person on the ground
is the crazy person in the air.

Gerald
 




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