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P-51's in movie "Empire of the Sun"



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 20th 04, 11:19 AM
Cub Driver
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We were at 5 feet. They never saw us. Hope we have better anti-mining
techniques now than we had then. Scary. If we could do that in barely 200+ kt
prop planes on a clear day with defense given time of arrival and looking for
us visually, what could the bad guys do on a dark and stormy night? Scary.

Quent (VP 29)


See my question to Gord about ground effect. Is it really there, as a
cushion, or is that a myth?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at
www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com
  #22  
Old March 20th 04, 12:12 PM
vincent p. norris
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I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done?


Marine crunchies in the Pacific and in Korea used to say they could
tell if an F4U was being flown by a married man, bescause they pulled
out at 20 feet agl instead of 10.

How did the planes keep from blowing themselves up?


We used to sing a song at Happy Hour at the O Club about an
unfortunate pilot whose bombs were set for tenth of a second delay,
instead of the proper 10 seconds.

I can recall that one line was, "An F4U without a tail won't fly."

The chorus went something like:

"Ten thousand dollars going home to the folks.
Won't they be delighted!
Won't the be excited!
Think of all the things that they can buy!"

I hope that answers your question, Dan; and if anyone can remember the
entire lyrics, I'd be grateful to see them posted, for my senile mind
can no longer recall them.

vince norris
  #23  
Old March 20th 04, 12:22 PM
vincent p. norris
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..... a C-47/DC-3 modified to look like a Wellington.

Wow! I can't imagine anything more difficult than that!

vince norris
  #24  
Old March 20th 04, 12:27 PM
vincent p. norris
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..... as opposed to the A for amphibian variant.

I had never heard that. I thought the "A" merely meant the first mod
of the "5" model. Do you mean, literally, the A stood for
"amphibian"?

vince norris
  #25  
Old March 20th 04, 01:53 PM
JDupre5762
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JN-4 "Jennies" served as German and British/US fighters in the
WWI movies of the 20's and 30's. Just a splash of paint and
a roundel made it a Sopwith Camel, or a black cross and it was
a "Fokker".


Hardly. An amazing number of actual WW1 aircraft were used in early movies.
Later films used aircraft that certainly looked a lot closer to the actual
types than JN 4s. Fokkers were made from modifying early Travel Aires which
were remarkably similar to the later Fokkers even being built of steel tubing
and using elephant eared ailerons. Rotary engine types were duplicated with
radial engine aircraft and Garland Lincoln went to great efforts to duplicate
Nieuports.

John Dupre'
  #26  
Old March 20th 04, 01:56 PM
JDupre5762
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"Tora, Tora, Tora!" features a number of P-40s and PBYs
getting blowed up good on the ground during the attack.
I assume the P-40s were mockups. Dunno about the PBYs -
it might have been cheaper and easier to use real junked
PBYs from some boneyard somewhere than to build full-sized
mockups.


The P-40s were mock ups. If you look real closely at several that explode you
will see the fiberglass skin come off revealing a steel tube fuselage. Sadly,
the PBYs were genuine and original flying boat variants as well. There are now
probably only three or four flying boat versions left as opposed to the A for
amphibian variant.

John Dupre'
  #27  
Old March 20th 04, 02:22 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Cub Driver wrote:
How much of a cushion do you have, from ground effect, in a
high-powered aircraft? I suppose it would be least in a fighter or a
B-26. But what about a B-25 or -17? If you were making 200 mph, say,
would the ground really want to reject you, or would you plow right
in?



Seems like the thing to do is to trim the nose up and manually force it down.
Then if you relaxed for a second, you'd naturally float up away from the water.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com


  #28  
Old March 20th 04, 02:50 PM
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F-84s were used as MiGs in a couple of Korean War era movies, "Sabre
Jet" for one, IIRC. I think that in these times, movie folks would have
their pick of any Soviet a/c, by either buying or renting from any of
the former Soviet forces. I read an article once where some movie used a
B-26 painted in Jap. markings. There was some Czech, IIRC, movie about
30 odd years ago that used a C-47/DC-3 modified to look like a
Wellington. I read it in an old Air Int. or Enthusiast. Also, IIRC, in
"The Great Escape", the a/c in question was Bucker Bu-?? or its later
built Czech version. The German fighters parked at the airfield were
AT-6s. I also recall a movie back in he '70s that used AT-6s/SNJs to
represent FW-190s & P-47s. ISTR the rear section of canopies were
removed & replaced with a 'razorback' sort of fairing & painted
appropriately. Don't forget the Pumas modified to look like Hind Ds in
"Red Dawn" & later less modified in a "Rambo" movie.

  #29  
Old March 20th 04, 03:40 PM
Alistair Gunn
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Jim Doyle twisted the electrons to say:
"M. H. Greaves" wrote in message
...
In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly
genuine enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.

Just the one actually, 'Black 6' at Duxford - (has since crashed into a
field at the hands of the then CinC Strike!)


IIRC, aren't there effectively 3 "types" of 109 around?

[1] Genuine 109s - non flying since 'Black 6' got bent. :-(
[2] 'Mules' that have been fitted with a Daimler-Benz DB-605.
[3] 'Mules' using an engine other than the DB-605.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
  #30  
Old March 20th 04, 04:03 PM
M. H. Greaves
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I think it would depend on the attitude and the angle of attack, also wing
area; the vulcan would float because of the wing area, it pushed a cushion
of air in front of it at low altitude.
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Damnably impossible I'd say...the rules say 100 feet for 'pilot
bombing' and while this figure was likely (certainly) broken a
_few_ times nobody actually flew _knowingly_ with the prop tips
"3 to 5" feet above the water in a P2V. Trust me.


How much of a cushion do you have, from ground effect, in a
high-powered aircraft? I suppose it would be least in a fighter or a
B-26. But what about a B-25 or -17? If you were making 200 mph, say,
would the ground really want to reject you, or would you plow right
in?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at
www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com



 




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