Of parachutes and things

Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
the cockpit are major considerations.

Thanks!
Shawn

"ShawnD2112" wrote:

Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
the cockpit are major considerations.

Glider pilots routinely fly with parachutes. You may also
want to ask in rec.aviation.soaring. I've flown with
National, Butler and Softie. The usual discussion is
whether it fits into the space available in the cockpit. If
you're buying new, talk to a reputable supplier and tell
them your height (for sizing), weight (right
diameter/descent rate) and aircraft type (you want something
that's comfortable in your type of seat.)

Under TSO C23b, which covers most emergency chutes, some
chutes are "low speed category" for under 150 mph aircraft
and some are "standard category" with no limits (but manfr
will usually give some limits.) Some chutes are certified
under TSO C23c which has three categories A,B and C. B is
the minimum you'd want to consider (150 KIAS at a gross
weight of 254 lb.)

Comfort is paramount. I sat in my Softie for a 12.5 hour
flight.


Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

In article AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win,
"ShawnD2112" wrote:

Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
the cockpit are major considerations.

I wear a parachute for all my flying. I much prefer the Softie to the
Strong rig we have. The Softie comes in many different styles/models.
As far as canopy choice, I want a canopy that is going to work at any
speed I might exit the airplane....as Todd noted that are different
certifcation criteria.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
contenders
seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field,
and
parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for
size in
the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
European
models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and
space in
the cockpit are major considerations.

Thanks!
Shawn

Shawn;

I take it you're into negative g these days, or at least thinking about
that side of the envelope :-) I'd suggest the Mini Softie. You can get
it with a very comfortable aerobatic harness which doesn't kill you with
the metalwork if you're working the airplane negative.
It should fit into the D cockpit ok unless you've been hanging out at
Mac Donald's too much lately or into that damn "bloomin onion" thing I
ate the other night at the Outback!! Man, you should have seen THAT
thing!!!! :-)) I think they just dip it into a bucket of LDL Cholesterol
and hand it to you!! :-))
Dudley

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley

Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley

I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea. A
good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he started at
1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000', higher
if they are spins.

As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe that
you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on the
circumstances.

Guenther
----------------------------------------------------
Guenther Eichhorn |
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO


In article ,
"ShawnD2112" writes:
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley

Guenther,
Sorry to hear about your friend, and I appreciate where your advice is
coming from. I agree with you on practicing new maneuvers but when you're
practicing for a competition you have to be able to get your positioning
right. Competition floor in the UK ast Standard level is 1000 ft.

Shawn
"Guenther Eichhorn" wrote in message
...
I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea.
A
good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he
started at
1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000',
higher
if they are spins.

As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe
that
you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on
the
circumstances.

Guenther
----------------------------------------------------
Guenther Eichhorn |
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO


In article ,
"ShawnD2112" writes:
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I
get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it
out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting
the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely
fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly
to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley

About the negative stuff; the only reason I mentioned it was for you to
make sure whatever harness you bought was comfortable on the negative
side of things. The aerobatic harness is usually much more comfortable
in this respect.
One thing to keep in mind if you're going to be doing formation in a
Pitts, and unfortunately it's not a very pleasant thought :-) Remember,
if you DO make hard contact and have a wing failure, the flying wires
will probably hold on the top wing and the wing will literally beat you
to death before you can get out....so don't get too close!! :-))
Dudley
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've
done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until
I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were
two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with
a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training,
there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane
touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a
good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I
first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled
it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before
hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I
rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this
is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems
silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the
hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call
tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at
least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take
it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted.
Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on
your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley

Cheers, Dudley. As if I didn't have enough things to worry about!!

Spent Sunday briefing and doing a small bit of formation work with a former
Red Arrow pilot. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, as least my log book will
show that I flew in formation with a former Red Arrow! I couldn't get the
grin off my face while it was happening. I think I'm going to enjoy working
with this guy! We went through a lengthy brief down at the local pub (where
all briefings should be held, if you ask me - very civilized approach to
flying, that!) where we discussed my mate's and my intentions, background,
and set out our stall together. We put together a basic framework of our
work then went into the details of safe formation flying to include
communications, formation placement, joinup and break basics, essentially
all the safety and practical issues associated with the business.
Thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a lot to take in. Some of it we knew, most
of it we didn't and even the stuff we knew we weren't entirely sure how to
apply. Talking to a guy who does it for a living (he still flies Jags) was
an eye-opening and extremely motivating experience.

On the parachute side, have decided on a Softie after talking to thier man,
Jim, for quite a while last week. He's going to make up a seat pack rig for
me with an aerobatic harness, based on your advice about the location of the
hardware (thanks for that, by the way)

It's also become time to replace the surplus bag I've been wearing for 3
years. I've looked at Flightsuits in California but are there any other
shops where guys in the community tend to go for good quality and good
prices? Any tips, as with the parachute advice, greatly appreciated!

Hope you had a good 4th weekend!

Cheers,
Shawn

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
About the negative stuff; the only reason I mentioned it was for you to
make sure whatever harness you bought was comfortable on the negative
side of things. The aerobatic harness is usually much more comfortable
in this respect.
One thing to keep in mind if you're going to be doing formation in a
Pitts, and unfortunately it's not a very pleasant thought :-) Remember,
if you DO make hard contact and have a wing failure, the flying wires
will probably hold on the top wing and the wing will literally beat you
to death before you can get out....so don't get too close!! :-))
Dudley
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've
done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until
I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were
two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with
a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training,
there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane
touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a
good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I
first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled
it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before
hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I
rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this
is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems
silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the
hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call
tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at
least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take
it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted.
Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on
your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley