Human factors RECKLESSNESS

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Everything Bob does and has done in aerobatics with each and every
aircraft
he has flown professionally for that purpose has required special waivers
from competent authority.

And certainly an aircraft inspected more often than your average ragged
out trainer. I saw footage of a Hoover wannabe foldering up the wings
on a Partenavia during an airshow.

Yes; this type of thing is unfortunate. Hoover is very aware of it and
speaks to GA pilots quite often on safety issues. He's always been quite
candid and truthful; especially when discussing his own mistakes.
Copy-cat issues with aerobatic wannabes are quite prevalent in aviation
unfortunately. All of us in the demonstration community do our best to nip
it in the bud when we see it happening. This thread is a good example of
that. Hopefully, I'm well known enough that when I come down on something
like rolling a Cessna 150, pilots, including the 150 driver will listen to
me. It's important that well respected pilots like you and Margy speak out
as well..as you have here. God knows if any of us do any good when things
like this come up. Lord I hope so! I know through the years I've talked on
it many times in aerobatic lectures I've given, and pilots like Hoover talk
on still today.
Dudley

jsmith wrote:

Robert A "Bob" Hoover was a military and civilian pilot that did things
with airplanes others said couldn't be done.

NW_PILOT isn't Bob Hoover.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

No it is my concept of life. Plain in simple lifeis short! You never know
how long you have. So live it like every day is your last.


I'm a career Special Forces officer. I've made my living with and around
firearms, explosives, parachutes, and other risky things. Not to mention
roaming around places like Iraq trying not to get shot or blown up. Two of
my favorite off-duty pursuits are aerobatic flying and mountaineering. So
I'm fairly well acquianted with risk.

Here's the thing: it's not about taking stupid chances in search of an
adrenaline rush. It's about controlling your environment, mastering the
challenges set before you. That means gathering information, knowing all
the risks, having the right skills, and taking appropriate measures to
ensure the outcome is positive. Every time.

If you live like every day is your last, then it will become a
self-fulfilling prophesy. It's a BS attitude. Your mentality should be "I
may die, but it ain't gonna be today." Live to fly (or climb, or jump, or
fight) another day.

I don't know Bob Hoover, but I'm willing to bet that his attitude is closer
to mine than to yours. I've known guys with your attitude. Some of them
grew out of it. The others are dead.

I don't blame you for the roll. I blame your CFI. You, as a student,
cannot be criticized for trusting your CFI to advise you. I probably would
have done the same thing 10 years ago, when I didn't know better. Your CFI
should lose his instructor status, if not his flight privs.

But that highlights the big danger in these kind of endeavors. You do the
right thing by seeking help from an experienced person, but what if that
person turns out to be an idiot? All I can say is be careful who you trust,
seek second opinions, and look for appropriate certifications. One of the
saddest things about the NTSB accident reports are all the stories of
friends and family members killed by jackass pilots doing stupid things.

"Ed H" wrote in message
...

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

No it is my concept of life. Plain in simple lifeis short! You never know
how long you have. So live it like every day is your last.


I'm a career Special Forces officer. I've made my living with and around
firearms, explosives, parachutes, and other risky things. Not to mention
roaming around places like Iraq trying not to get shot or blown up. Two
of my favorite off-duty pursuits are aerobatic flying and mountaineering.
So I'm fairly well acquianted with risk.

Here's the thing: it's not about taking stupid chances in search of an
adrenaline rush. It's about controlling your environment, mastering the
challenges set before you. That means gathering information, knowing all
the risks, having the right skills, and taking appropriate measures to
ensure the outcome is positive. Every time.

If you live like every day is your last, then it will become a
self-fulfilling prophesy. It's a BS attitude. Your mentality should be
"I may die, but it ain't gonna be today." Live to fly (or climb, or jump,
or fight) another day.

I don't know Bob Hoover, but I'm willing to bet that his attitude is
closer to mine than to yours. I've known guys with your attitude. Some
of them grew out of it. The others are dead.

I don't blame you for the roll. I blame your CFI. You, as a student,
cannot be criticized for trusting your CFI to advise you. I probably
would have done the same thing 10 years ago, when I didn't know better.
Your CFI should lose his instructor status, if not his flight privs.

But that highlights the big danger in these kind of endeavors. You do the
right thing by seeking help from an experienced person, but what if that
person turns out to be an idiot? All I can say is be careful who you
trust, seek second opinions, and look for appropriate certifications. One
of the saddest things about the NTSB accident reports are all the stories
of friends and family members killed by jackass pilots doing stupid
things.

It's exactly this philosophy that kept me alive through an entire career of
test flying and demonstrating high performance airplanes at low altitude.
And you're right about Hoover also. I know him, and his philosophy IS
exactly as you have stated here.
Thank you for your service,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote...

Dudley Henriques wrote:


Everything Bob does and has done in aerobatics with each and every
aircraft
he has flown professionally for that purpose has required special waivers
from competent authority.

And certainly an aircraft inspected more often than your average ragged
out trainer. I saw footage of a Hoover wannabe foldering up the wings
on a Partenavia during an airshow.


Yes; this type of thing is unfortunate. Hoover is very aware of it and
speaks to GA pilots quite often on safety issues. He's always been quite
candid and truthful; especially when discussing his own mistakes.
Copy-cat issues with aerobatic wannabes are quite prevalent in aviation
unfortunately.

Not just aviation. I rock climb, and at the top of the rock climbing
pyramid are guys that climb thousand foot cliffs of astounding
difficulty, and do it solo without any ropes or other safety gear. Just
their skill.

And when asked about it, to a man they do the right thing and go on and
on, blah, blah, blah, about how they do it for themselves, and no one
else should do it, etc. And still people follow their lead and kill
themselves when they get over their head.

The soloists can do what they do because they have absolute mastery (as
much as one can be a master) of their skills and limitations. The
problem is, their logic of "I am a master, therefore I can solo" gets
turned around by wannabes into "If *I* solo climb, I too must be a
master." At which point natural selection occurs.

Everybody would like to have the skills of Mr. Hoover. More than a few
think they already do. Some will always die trying to prove it, to
themselves and others. So it'll be a constant battle.

strapping yourself to an enormous fuel tank and two rockets is pretty
damn reckless if you ask me, but i respect any astronaut living or who
died exploring new frontiers.

hey so is sailing across the ocean when everyone else expects you to
fall off.

"private" wrote in message

CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while reaching for a $100
side
bet.


What accident does this refer to? Who was killed?

NW_PILOT wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Andrew Gideon wrote:


Smutny wrote:



Dude, you really need to step back and take a good look at what you're
exhibiting here.


You know, NW didn't need to post that he was doing aerobatics in a
*nonaerobatic* airplane. He convinced me a while back that he posts for
the shock value, and likely enjoys the huge response he generates as

much

as he enjoys doing inappropriate things in/to aircraft.

I've enjoyed some of the resulting conversation (it never occurred to me
that an inadvertent roll might short the battery's terminals, for

example),

but let's not give him the reward he craves. It just feeds his

addiction,

and he'll be back for more.

- Andrew


Well, if the poster who said he was sending the video to his local FSDO
really does that and wasn't just bluffing, then we may not have to hear
of his aviation recklessness too much longer.

Matt



It's funny how you all think I did this in my airplane my airplane is blue &
white not red.



If you are going to intentionally put an aircraft at risk, I would
rather you do it with your own plane, not one others may rely on or if
damaged put at risk.

On the subject of *Wannabe* flying, I remember a tragic example from
RF-4 training at Mt. home AFB in 1967. A crew from our sister squadron
was working with an Army detachment in the field. After the days
activities were over, the ground controller asked for a fly-by. The
RF-4 jock came by at 500 feet with everything hanging out, gear down,
flaps down, hook down. As he passed by the guys on the ground, he lit
both burners and attempted a roll. Almost made it too, but dished-out
on the bottom and turned it into a flaming ball of wreckage.

While going through the pilots stuff several days later, a video was
found showing the Thunderbirds doing a roll from 500 feet with
everything hanging out using full burner.

JJ Sinclair

Thanks Dudley. No surprise you agree. Most people in dangerous professions
learn to think this way, or they become a statistic. Test pilot, fighter
pilot, aerobatic pilot, soldier, police officer, fireman, mountain climber,
stuntman, race car driver ... the same mentality is essential to success.
Learn as much as you can, prepare as much as you can, and stack the odds in
your favor so you reach the end in one piece.

The old saying is wrong. There are plenty of old, bold pilots. But they
are all old, bold, careful pilots. There are no old, bold, careless pilots.



It's exactly this philosophy that kept me alive through an entire career
of test flying and demonstrating high performance airplanes at low
altitude.
And you're right about Hoover also. I know him, and his philosophy IS
exactly as you have stated here.
Thank you for your service,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)