A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Barometer Setting in Europe question...



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 31st 05, 01:54 PM
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

G Farris wrote:

Sounds confusing? It IS confusing, even when you get used to it.


Frankly, I think street traffic rules are more comlicated. But you
really must do your homework before you o to a place (or even a country)
you've never been before.

Having flown both systems, the European system is really a nuisance!
It is (at least theoretically) justified because in Europe, the "general"
18000' altitude would not be sufficient to provide terrain clearance in all


I don't think this is the main reason. The real reason is that there are
many independant countries here, each with its own regulation. Of
course, each country has its own idea what a good regulation should look
like. Simple (or comlicated) as that.

Stefan
  #12  
Old March 31st 05, 02:33 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Stefan wrote:
QDR, QDM, QTE (not good if you're lost and then confuse QDR and QDM)


Not if you have enough fuel, you get there after a while ;-)
-Kees

  #14  
Old March 31st 05, 05:14 PM
Dylan Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Julian Scarfe wrote:
In some cases, different areas within states have different transition
altitudes for ATC purposes. For example in the UK, the general transition
altitude is 3000 ft, but within the horizontal extent of the London TMA it
becomes 6000 ft.


And, if I remember correctly, for VFR in most instances you can fly
altitude rather than flight level (but when you talk to ATC it's
important to make the distinction). For example, going home the other
day, I was flying altitude 4000 over the Pennines, but didn't change to
flight levels once over the Irish Sea now I was over 3000' AGL - I just
told Ronaldsway I was 'altitude 4000' when I checked in with them.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"
  #15  
Old March 31st 05, 06:10 PM
Julian Scarfe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...

And, if I remember correctly, for VFR in most instances you can fly
altitude rather than flight level (but when you talk to ATC it's
important to make the distinction). For example, going home the other
day, I was flying altitude 4000 over the Pennines, but didn't change to
flight levels once over the Irish Sea now I was over 3000' AGL - I just
told Ronaldsway I was 'altitude 4000' when I checked in with them.


That's correct, for the UK at least. There's no requirement for VFR flights
to cruise at particular levels, so there's not much point in insisting that
VFR flights use a particular altimeter setting, outside controlled airspace.
However they are "encouraged" to set 1013 above the TA and use quadrantal
levels.

Julian Scarfe


  #16  
Old April 1st 05, 06:54 PM
ShawnD2112
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Not disappearing at all in the UK. QFE is still taught and the numbers are
given every time a pilot calls up an airfield for landing information.

Having trained in the US, I thought QFE/QNH was just the most absurd thing
I'd ever heard. But when you fly in the south of England where the highest
point is usually less than 500 ASL, it's actually not a bad way to do it. I
kind of like the QFE reference because, once I've set the altimeter on the
approach to the pattern, it's one less piece of mental gymnastic work I have
to do.

Transition height in the UK, by the way, is 3,500 ft.

Shawn
"G Farris" wrote in message
...
In article , says...


Sounds confusing? You get used to it.


Good post, Stefan.
Sounds confusing? It IS confusing, even when you get used to it.
Having flown both systems, the European system is really a nuisance!
It is (at least theoretically) justified because in Europe, the "general"
18000' altitude would not be sufficient to provide terrain clearance in
all
locations, as it is in the US. Therefore, rather than create a special
airspace for the 10 sq-mi area concerned, the entire continent is
subjected to
arcane usage rules, with transition altitudes and levels (they are
different
when climbing and descending) that vary from day to day, depending on the
barometric pressure, and are different according to whether or not one is
in a
TMA or other terminal procedure controlled airspace.

Generally speaking, however, these transitions almost always occur at or
below
5500', so it is common to hear aircraft - even VFR - reporting FL5500,
for
example.

Fortunately, the use of QFE - once dear to VFR-only pilots - is going by
the
wayside. Time was, pilots would set their altimiters to "0" before
takeoff,
then "at some point" transition to the local altimeter setting. On VFR
approach, they would set their altimeter to the field elevation, so they
could
execute their pattern with the same reference altitudes displayed on their
altimeter, regardless of the actual field elevation. Good idea, I suppose,
but
in reality it only added "one more" reference setting to the already thick
soup. This practice appears to be disappearing with the institution of
pan-European flight crew training.

G Faris



  #17  
Old April 2nd 05, 11:36 PM
Dylan Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , ShawnD2112 wrote:
Not disappearing at all in the UK. QFE is still taught and the numbers are
given every time a pilot calls up an airfield for landing information.


The one time I like QFE is when towing gliders. Never going more than a
couple of miles from the field, so I always set QFE.

Pretty much any time anyone gives it to me otherwise, I tend not to
bother though.

  #18  
Old April 3rd 05, 12:13 PM
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dylan Smith wrote:

The one time I like QFE is when towing gliders. Never going more than a
couple of miles from the field, so I always set QFE.


The only case, but then consequently, we use QFE here is when doing
aerobatics.

On tow it's nice when both pilots speak the same language. Ok, there's
already knots vs km/h and feet vs meters, so I guess I could get used to
the QFE vs QNH conversion, too.

Stefan
  #19  
Old April 3rd 05, 05:18 PM
Julian Scarfe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
news
Not disappearing at all in the UK. QFE is still taught and the numbers
are given every time a pilot calls up an airfield for landing information.


What you say is true enough, but I get the impression that there are very
few commercial operators who still use QFE, and fewer PPL with instrument
ratings who use it. IMHO, the sooner it's confined to the history books the
better.

Julian Scarfe


  #20  
Old April 3rd 05, 09:43 PM
ShawnD2112
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Whatever. Airlines probably don't use it, not that many UK PPLs with
instrument ratings.

Shawn
"Julian Scarfe" wrote in message
...
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
news
Not disappearing at all in the UK. QFE is still taught and the numbers
are given every time a pilot calls up an airfield for landing
information.


What you say is true enough, but I get the impression that there are very
few commercial operators who still use QFE, and fewer PPL with instrument
ratings who use it. IMHO, the sooner it's confined to the history books
the better.

Julian Scarfe




 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VOR/DME Approach Question Chip Jones Instrument Flight Rules 47 August 29th 04 05:03 AM
A question on Airworthiness Inspection Dave S Home Built 1 August 10th 04 05:07 AM
Question Charles S Home Built 4 April 5th 04 09:10 PM
Tecumseh Engine Mounting Question jlauer Home Built 7 November 16th 03 02:51 AM
Question about Question 4488 [email protected] Instrument Flight Rules 3 October 27th 03 02:26 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.