Read This Carefully please; word for word

I recently posted a strong objection to a photographer pushing crash
videos on the newsgroups. I've pasted in below word for word the exact
quoted text of a post below addressed to me personally. Aside from the
personal comment the photographer makes to me, which is fine, and fully
within his right to do so in defense of his position, please note his
GENERAL FEELINGS about race pilots and airshow pilots, and after reading
his general comment about pilots like myself, ask yourself if this
person is, as he has said, involved in his hobby of crash photography
simply because he "loves" aviation? Ask yourself about his frame of
thinking as he's watching pilots like myself do a demonstration. Then
ask yourself how he feels about me as he's taking that video!
Thank you for your time,

From Iwan Bogels to me below;

I don't have to put up with the opinion of some
hypocrite
pilot who is involved in demonstration flights and air races, intended
to
push flying to the limit. If it wasn't for guys like you, about 50% of
all
crash videos would have never been shot because the crashes simply
didn't
occur.

Flying is relatively safe, but pushing flight to the limit for the fun
of it
just isn't. Don't complain if something goes wrong when guys like you
are
willingly taking more risk than necessary during air races and
demonstration
flights. And stop pointing fingers at people who are interested to see
thrilling aviation just because it simply exites them. Pilots like you
provided it to them in the first place!

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
I recently posted a strong objection to a photographer pushing crash
videos on the newsgroups. I've pasted in below word for word the exact
quoted text of a post below addressed to me personally. Aside from the
personal comment the photographer makes to me, which is fine, and fully
within his right to do so in defense of his position, please note his
GENERAL FEELINGS about race pilots and airshow pilots, and after reading
his general comment about pilots like myself, ask yourself if this
person is, as he has said, involved in his hobby of crash photography
simply because he "loves" aviation? Ask yourself about his frame of
thinking as he's watching pilots like myself do a demonstration. Then
ask yourself how he feels about me as he's taking that video!
Thank you for your time,

From Iwan Bogels to me below;

I don't have to put up with the opinion of some
hypocrite
pilot who is involved in demonstration flights and air races, intended
to
push flying to the limit. If it wasn't for guys like you, about 50% of
all
crash videos would have never been shot because the crashes simply
didn't
occur.

Flying is relatively safe, but pushing flight to the limit for the fun
of it
just isn't. Don't complain if something goes wrong when guys like you
are
willingly taking more risk than necessary during air races and
demonstration
flights. And stop pointing fingers at people who are interested to see
thrilling aviation just because it simply exites them. Pilots like you
provided it to them in the first place!

I read it just fine the first time around. What is your issue exactly?

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...

I read it just fine the first time around. What is your issue exactly?

John

Although I posted this in an obvious negative context, it isn't really
supposed to illicit feelings that favor my position per se. Actually, as
far as these groups are concerned, my position isn't all that relevant
anyway. You would have to be a member of the race or airshow community
to fully appreciate the impact of what the photographer has said here.
His statement has to be viewed in contrast to his prior stated views
that explained his reasons for engaging in crash photography.
I expect no particular favorable or unfavorable responses to my posting
his words here. Some will agree there is a problem with this guy and
some like yourself will see no problem at all with what he has said
here.
It's simply put out here in the "food for thought" department, and
perhaps to allow those of you who are not in our community to see why we
don't particularly like this kind of thing. Nothing more..nothing less,
and surely nothing expected in the way of positive return from those of
you outside our community.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:55:56 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

I recently posted a strong objection to a photographer pushing crash
videos on the newsgroups. I've pasted in below word for word the exact
quoted text of a post below addressed to me personally. Aside from the
personal comment the photographer makes to me, which is fine, and fully
within his right to do so in defense of his position, please note his
GENERAL FEELINGS about race pilots and airshow pilots, and after reading
his general comment about pilots like myself, ask yourself if this
person is, as he has said, involved in his hobby of crash photography
simply because he "loves" aviation? Ask yourself about his frame of
thinking as he's watching pilots like myself do a demonstration. Then
ask yourself how he feels about me as he's taking that video!
Thank you for your time,


The question I have is "Who gives a ****?" If you don't want to see
it then don't go there.

In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

I read it just fine the first time around. What is your issue exactly?

John

Although I posted this in an obvious negative context, it isn't really
supposed to illicit feelings that favor my position per se. Actually, as
far as these groups are concerned, my position isn't all that relevant
anyway. You would have to be a member of the race or airshow community
to fully appreciate the impact of what the photographer has said here.
His statement has to be viewed in contrast to his prior stated views
that explained his reasons for engaging in crash photography.
I expect no particular favorable or unfavorable responses to my posting
his words here. Some will agree there is a problem with this guy and
some like yourself will see no problem at all with what he has said
here.
It's simply put out here in the "food for thought" department, and
perhaps to allow those of you who are not in our community to see why we
don't particularly like this kind of thing.


You have thus far not stated why you don't like "this kind of thing".



--Mike

"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...

You have thus far not stated why you don't like "this kind of thing".



--Mike

Simply read the thread "aviation videos on line" from the beginning if
you're at all interested. If not, simply pass on it. It should be self
explanatory.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

You have thus far not stated why you don't like "this kind of thing".



Simply read the thread "aviation videos on line" from the beginning if
you're at all interested. If not, simply pass on it. It should be self
explanatory.


I did read it, and it isn't self explanatory...so I'll ask you a second
time: what exactly is it you object to?


--Mike

"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

You have thus far not stated why you don't like "this kind of
thing".



Simply read the thread "aviation videos on line" from the beginning
if
you're at all interested. If not, simply pass on it. It should be
self
explanatory.


I did read it, and it isn't self explanatory...so I'll ask you a
second
time: what exactly is it you object to?


--Mike

Not interested. Either read it and comment, or take your shot without my
assistance. If it's a decent comment, I'll respond in kind. If it's a
cold unrelated to the issue personal shot, you can have it uncontested.
I'll only deal with it if it's on issue.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet


Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

You have thus far not stated why you don't like "this kind of
thing".



Simply read the thread "aviation videos on line" from the beginning
if
you're at all interested. If not, simply pass on it. It should be
self
explanatory.


I did read it, and it isn't self explanatory...so I'll ask you a
second
time: what exactly is it you object to?


Not interested. Either read it and comment, or take your shot without my
assistance. If it's a decent comment, I'll respond in kind. If it's a
cold unrelated to the issue personal shot, you can have it uncontested.
I'll only deal with it if it's on issue.


I see. So you're comfortable saying you don't like "this kind of thing,"
but for unknown reasons, you're not capable of stating why you don't
like this "this kind of thing" despite being directly asked twice? This
is out of character for you.

I have no personal shots to take one way or another...and I don't see
how anybody else would. I'm simply asking you to explain what you find
disagreeable about it. If you can't, then why bring it up in the first
place?


--Mike

"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

You have thus far not stated why you don't like "this kind of
thing".



Simply read the thread "aviation videos on line" from the
beginning
if
you're at all interested. If not, simply pass on it. It should
be
self
explanatory.


I did read it, and it isn't self explanatory...so I'll ask you a
second
time: what exactly is it you object to?


Not interested. Either read it and comment, or take your shot
without my
assistance. If it's a decent comment, I'll respond in kind. If it's
a
cold unrelated to the issue personal shot, you can have it
uncontested.
I'll only deal with it if it's on issue.


I see. So you're comfortable saying you don't like "this kind of
thing,"
but for unknown reasons, you're not capable of stating why you don't
like this "this kind of thing" despite being directly asked twice?
This
is out of character for you.

I have no personal shots to take one way or another...and I don't see
how anybody else would. I'm simply asking you to explain what you find
disagreeable about it. If you can't, then why bring it up in the first
place?


--Mike
This, and your other post to me asking continuously for an explanation
of my objections to the specific context of crash videos being discussed
in this thread are a perfect example of why I don't answer posts like
yours.
The answer has been plainly stated in other posts and is clear to anyone
with reasonable intelligence. Your constant demand that I repeat these
reasons because you "can't find the answer" isn't enough incentive for
me to repost an entire thought process for your personal convenience.
That being said, I've pasted in below the EXACT answer to your constant
requests for that answer. If you can't get what I'm saying from this,
I'm sorry, I can't help you any further.

From a prior post by me and quite clear on the "why's";
The "ethics" that I was attacking and will always continue to attack are
not as clearly cut as you would like to have them. The physical act of
taking a picture at an air show disaster is only the tip of a large
iceberg. The REASON for taking that picture, and what the photographer
does with the picture after it's been taken is the area of my concern,
NOT the fact that the picture was taken per se, which seems to be the
crux of everything you have been attempting to "explain" to me.
There is nothing improper about taking photographs or filming a video
during an air race or air show disaster IF the reason for taking these
pictures isn't prurient. A video shot as a record of the event or to be
used as news of the event is one thing. That's ethical. A video of a
crash used in a safety program designed to help prevent the same
accident from happening again is more than ethical. It's advisable!
On the other hand, there are those who take these photographs and film
these videos for no other reason than their own prurient interest; a
record for them personally to "enjoy" watching and to pass on to others
in the public forum as their " the thrill of the day". Photographers who
use these photographs in their "hobby" and present them to the public
seeking only acclaim for their skill as photographers are completely
unethical to us in the airshow community. These people, displaying an
aspect of human nature that will unfortunately always be with us, are in
my opinion unethical. On the airshow circuit we think of them as human
leeches standing there with their cameras waiting for one of us to die
so they can catch the moment on film to later be released by them for
their own purpose unrelated to anything but their own amusement or
profit.
The only ethics involved with this issue are the ethics involved for the
reasons the camera shutter clicks. There are good reasons and there are
bad reasons. The photographers I have so strongly objected to are the
one's with the "bad" reasons; the thrill seekers; the "hobbyists".
Any race or airshow pilot will tell you that the existence of crash
video is a given, and we understand that there will be pictures if
something goes wrong for us. In a way, we welcome it, because it might
help save another pilot's life, but none of us accept the leech
photographers, the paparazzi type, who come to exploit us when something
goes wrong.
These "hobby" video people fit into the unethical category for us, and
yes, we detest them!
As for people outside the airshow community discussing an issue like
this one with us; everyone of course has the right to an opinion, but
it's better that you ASK, rather than TELL when you get into something
as close to the show community as this issue. That's just a friendly
suggestion. Pilots from the community don't mind opposing viewpoint. We
do however, like a pilot to have some actual experience with what we do
before expressing that opinion too loudly :-)

If this doesn't answer what you keep "demanding" than you will just have
to get by on whatever floats your boat.

I fail to see what it is about this that is so hard to understand.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet