Total Cost of Ownership

I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on total cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what do you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?

Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-300, etc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

Talking just dollars that will leave your pocket.

Inspections vary from $75 to $250 or so.

Insurance, full coverage, will run about 3% of insured value per year. Some companies will allow an off season "storage" rate where you will not have "in motion hull or liability coverage." Via Costello, "in motion" means from the start of takeoff roll to the end of landing roll. It has nothing to do with moving in the trailer or even towing around the airport. At least, that was the most recent word I had from them.

Spare parts. How much are you planning on breaking it?

Parachute re-pack will run around $100 each time it is done.

You will spend another $100 per year on other misc things, like polish, new yaw string, wing tape, etc. Just count on it. It will happen.

There will be things that come up every 3-5 years, such as hydrostatic inspection of oxygen bottle, replacement of tape on mylar seals, trailer tires, etc. If you figure $200 for a set of tires over 5 years, that is $40 per year for that. Double that to cover other time related items.

Property tax or state registration fee. Can be anything from $10 to $1000 per year for a $30K sailplane, depending on your state.

How much is it going to cost you to park the trailer at the airport?

Easy to get to $1500 per year.

That has been my experience.

Steve Leonard

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:08:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on total cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what do you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?

Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-300, etc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

You ask a good question, but a lot has to do with where you fly and where you are going to keep your glider. You may want to ask others who fly where you fly to get an idea of their various expenses. To me here are the some basic expenses to consider..

1. Tiedown fees for trailer - For some locations there is 0 expense. At Moriarty, NM the charge is $200. year.
2. Hangar costs - If it will be kept assembled (or in a trailer) in a hangar it can be sizable....
3. Insurance - If you are in the US you may want to call Costello and perhaps other companies for a quote or ask your friends.
4. Annual - Costs can vary all over in the US, but could easily be $100 to $200 (maybe more) if there are no issues.
5. Parachute repack - Needed normally twice a year in this US and this could easily be $ 50 - $60 or more per repack
6. Oxygen - If you fly out especially out west this will be another expense..
7. Maintenance - Depending on the overall condition of your ship it can be minimal in any particular year, but in another year it can be several hundred USD if you need a tire or even minor touch up work....
8. There is also the cost of money to consider. Will you have to take a loan? If you have the funds there is the opportunity cost of not having the money invested.

Now, this all being said....You can compare all of this against having to rent a ship and the many limitations you face in renting whether from a commercial operator or when using a club ship. The benefits of having your own ship are many and sometimes the hard benefits are somewhat difficult to quantify, but they can be very worth owning..(and indeed, I have owned 6 gliders over the years!)

Again, the KEY is to check with local pilot friends to see what they are actually having to pay for various services wherever you live and fly. Every location can be very unique in the expenses you will have to pay.

Good luck!

Thx - Renny

At 18:42 27 April 2017, Renny wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:08:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:
I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on
to=
tal cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what
d=
o you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?
=20
Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-
300,
e=
tc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

You ask a good question, but a lot has to do with where you fly and where
y=
ou are going to keep your glider. You may want to ask others who fly
where
=
you fly to get an idea of their various expenses. To me here are the some
b=
asic expenses to consider..

1. Tiedown fees for trailer - For some locations there is 0 expense. At
M=
oriarty, NM the charge is $200. year.
2. Hangar costs - If it will be kept assembled (or in a trailer) in a
hanga=
r it can be sizable....=20
3. Insurance - If you are in the US you may want to call Costello and
perha=
ps other companies for a quote or ask your friends.
4. Annual - Costs can vary all over in the US, but could easily be $100
to
=
$200 (maybe more) if there are no issues.=20
5. Parachute repack - Needed normally twice a year in this US and this
coul=
d easily be $ 50 - $60 or more per repack
6. Oxygen - If you fly out especially out west this will be another
expense=
..
7. Maintenance - Depending on the overall condition of your ship it can
be
=
minimal in any particular year, but in another year it can be several
hundr=
ed USD if you need a tire or even minor touch up work.... =20
8. There is also the cost of money to consider. Will you have to take a
loa=
n? If you have the funds there is the opportunity cost of not having the
mo=
ney invested.

Now, this all being said....You can compare all of this against having to
r=
ent a ship and the many limitations you face in renting whether from a
comm=
ercial operator or when using a club ship. The benefits of having your
own
=
ship are many and sometimes the hard benefits are somewhat difficult to
qua=
ntify, but they can be very worth owning..(and indeed, I have owned 6
glide=
rs over the years!)=20

Again, the KEY is to check with local pilot friends to see what they are
ac=
tually having to pay for various services wherever you live and fly.
Every
=
location can be very unique in the expenses you will have to pay.

Good luck!=20

Thx - Renny


Shared ownership can be a good system,over here in Briton we call it
syndicate ownership.
Not only does it reduce the cost it means that there is at least one person

that has an interest in helping to rig,retreave and de rig .
It helps if you are friends but as long as you can get on its not
necessary.
It does mean the choice of ships is different because you have more money
but you both have to agree.
Jon

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-6, Jonathon May wrote:
At 18:42 27 April 2017, Renny wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:08:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:
I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on
to=
tal cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what
d=
o you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?
=20
Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-
300,
e=
tc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

You ask a good question, but a lot has to do with where you fly and where
y=
ou are going to keep your glider. You may want to ask others who fly
where
=
you fly to get an idea of their various expenses. To me here are the some
b=
asic expenses to consider..

1. Tiedown fees for trailer - For some locations there is 0 expense. At
M=
oriarty, NM the charge is $200. year.
2. Hangar costs - If it will be kept assembled (or in a trailer) in a
hanga=
r it can be sizable....=20
3. Insurance - If you are in the US you may want to call Costello and
perha=
ps other companies for a quote or ask your friends.
4. Annual - Costs can vary all over in the US, but could easily be $100
to
=
$200 (maybe more) if there are no issues.=20
5. Parachute repack - Needed normally twice a year in this US and this
coul=
d easily be $ 50 - $60 or more per repack
6. Oxygen - If you fly out especially out west this will be another
expense=
..
7. Maintenance - Depending on the overall condition of your ship it can
be
=
minimal in any particular year, but in another year it can be several
hundr=
ed USD if you need a tire or even minor touch up work.... =20
8. There is also the cost of money to consider. Will you have to take a
loa=
n? If you have the funds there is the opportunity cost of not having the
mo=
ney invested.

Now, this all being said....You can compare all of this against having to
r=
ent a ship and the many limitations you face in renting whether from a
comm=
ercial operator or when using a club ship. The benefits of having your
own
=
ship are many and sometimes the hard benefits are somewhat difficult to
qua=
ntify, but they can be very worth owning..(and indeed, I have owned 6
glide=
rs over the years!)=20

Again, the KEY is to check with local pilot friends to see what they are
ac=
tually having to pay for various services wherever you live and fly.
Every
=
location can be very unique in the expenses you will have to pay.

Good luck!=20

Thx - Renny


Shared ownership can be a good system,over here in Briton we call it
syndicate ownership.
Not only does it reduce the cost it means that there is at least one person

that has an interest in helping to rig,retreave and de rig .
It helps if you are friends but as long as you can get on its not
necessary.
It does mean the choice of ships is different because you have more money
but you both have to agree.
Jon

10.5 years in UK in two tours. Our syndicates were generally 4-way, often with one non-active partner. Yes kept costs down. Always an available seat. IIRC, at the end of my first 4.5 years I had logged at least 30 makes/models. Only 4-5 new during the second tour, but a lot more XC as I had I had interests in three gliders at one point; one wholly owned, one 3-way, and another 4-way.

In my own case, I made myself known at the glider port and got to know the other member pilots and their flying skills pretty well. That sort of engagement facilitates entering and leaving syndicates.

Frank Whiteley

A partnership took me from an ASW-19b to an LS-6a. I couldn't have been
happier!

Dan

On 4/27/2017 5:37 PM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-6, Jonathon May wrote:
At 18:42 27 April 2017, Renny wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:08:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:
I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on
to=
tal cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what
d=
o you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?
=20
Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-
300,
e=
tc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

You ask a good question, but a lot has to do with where you fly and where
y=
ou are going to keep your glider. You may want to ask others who fly
where
=
you fly to get an idea of their various expenses. To me here are the some
b=
asic expenses to consider..

1. Tiedown fees for trailer - For some locations there is 0 expense. At
M=
oriarty, NM the charge is $200. year.
2. Hangar costs - If it will be kept assembled (or in a trailer) in a
hanga=
r it can be sizable....=20
3. Insurance - If you are in the US you may want to call Costello and
perha=
ps other companies for a quote or ask your friends.
4. Annual - Costs can vary all over in the US, but could easily be $100
to
=
$200 (maybe more) if there are no issues.=20
5. Parachute repack - Needed normally twice a year in this US and this
coul=
d easily be $ 50 - $60 or more per repack
6. Oxygen - If you fly out especially out west this will be another
expense=
..
7. Maintenance - Depending on the overall condition of your ship it can
be
=
minimal in any particular year, but in another year it can be several
hundr=
ed USD if you need a tire or even minor touch up work.... =20
8. There is also the cost of money to consider. Will you have to take a
loa=
n? If you have the funds there is the opportunity cost of not having the
mo=
ney invested.

Now, this all being said....You can compare all of this against having to
r=
ent a ship and the many limitations you face in renting whether from a
comm=
ercial operator or when using a club ship. The benefits of having your
own
=
ship are many and sometimes the hard benefits are somewhat difficult to
qua=
ntify, but they can be very worth owning..(and indeed, I have owned 6
glide=
rs over the years!)=20

Again, the KEY is to check with local pilot friends to see what they are
ac=
tually having to pay for various services wherever you live and fly.
Every
=
location can be very unique in the expenses you will have to pay.

Good luck!=20

Thx - Renny

Shared ownership can be a good system,over here in Briton we call it
syndicate ownership.
Not only does it reduce the cost it means that there is at least one person

that has an interest in helping to rig,retreave and de rig .
It helps if you are friends but as long as you can get on its not
necessary.
It does mean the choice of ships is different because you have more money
but you both have to agree.
Jon
10.5 years in UK in two tours. Our syndicates were generally 4-way, often with one non-active partner. Yes kept costs down. Always an available seat. IIRC, at the end of my first 4.5 years I had logged at least 30 makes/models. Only 4-5 new during the second tour, but a lot more XC as I had I had interests in three gliders at one point; one wholly owned, one 3-way, and another 4-way.

In my own case, I made myself known at the glider port and got to know the other member pilots and their flying skills pretty well. That sort of engagement facilitates entering and leaving syndicates.

Frank Whiteley

--
Dan, 5J

Way back when I was trying to justify in economic terms buying a glider. My guesswork about the cross-over point came roughly speaking to renting for 25 hours a year a single-seat Grob. Lots of fudging with the numbers, glider kept in trailer, not that high priced glider ($10-12k) and none of the realism about annual routine costs listed by Steve or Renny.
The best bit about owning is that you can decide at any time to go fly, and you can fly as long as you like without the FBO (or club President) screaming your time is up on the radio when you are at 6k agl in 6 knots with another 2k still to climb (do not ask how I know that). There are only your own restrictions on flying cross country ... and then there will be trips to camps, contests. Beats renting, especially if the best available is a worn-out 1-26.





On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on total cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what do you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?

Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-300, etc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

Steve and Renny have the ballpark numbers. FWIW, when I owned an LS4 in "well-used" condition, I budgeted an additional $500/year for capital improvements. I'd save up until I had enough for the desired toy. This meant a new vario, a new radio, flight computer, tow out gear, etc. IIRC, I budgeted $2200/year including the capital fund (New York/Philly area), and that came out just about right for the glider stored in the trailer in a barn adjacent to the airport.

Erik Mann

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 5:37:42 PM UTC-6, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-6, Jonathon May wrote:
At 18:42 27 April 2017, Renny wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:08:02 PM UTC-6,
wrote:
I am looking to buy my first glider and wanted to get some feedback on
to=
tal cost of ownership. Excluding tow fees and club membership fees, what
d=
o you typically spend on insurance, annuals, spare parts, etc.?
=20
Looking to buy an ASW20, Discus B, Discus CS, LS3, LS4, DG-202, DG-
300,
e=
tc. Trying to get a good quality ship for under $30K. Thanks

You ask a good question, but a lot has to do with where you fly and where
y=
ou are going to keep your glider. You may want to ask others who fly
where
=
you fly to get an idea of their various expenses. To me here are the some
b=
asic expenses to consider..

1. Tiedown fees for trailer - For some locations there is 0 expense. At
M=
oriarty, NM the charge is $200. year.
2. Hangar costs - If it will be kept assembled (or in a trailer) in a
hanga=
r it can be sizable....=20
3. Insurance - If you are in the US you may want to call Costello and
perha=
ps other companies for a quote or ask your friends.
4. Annual - Costs can vary all over in the US, but could easily be $100
to
=
$200 (maybe more) if there are no issues.=20
5. Parachute repack - Needed normally twice a year in this US and this
coul=
d easily be $ 50 - $60 or more per repack
6. Oxygen - If you fly out especially out west this will be another
expense=
..
7. Maintenance - Depending on the overall condition of your ship it can
be
=
minimal in any particular year, but in another year it can be several
hundr=
ed USD if you need a tire or even minor touch up work.... =20
8. There is also the cost of money to consider. Will you have to take a
loa=
n? If you have the funds there is the opportunity cost of not having the
mo=
ney invested.

Now, this all being said....You can compare all of this against having to
r=
ent a ship and the many limitations you face in renting whether from a
comm=
ercial operator or when using a club ship. The benefits of having your
own
=
ship are many and sometimes the hard benefits are somewhat difficult to
qua=
ntify, but they can be very worth owning..(and indeed, I have owned 6
glide=
rs over the years!)=20

Again, the KEY is to check with local pilot friends to see what they are
ac=
tually having to pay for various services wherever you live and fly.
Every
=
location can be very unique in the expenses you will have to pay.

Good luck!=20

Thx - Renny


Shared ownership can be a good system,over here in Briton we call it
syndicate ownership.
Not only does it reduce the cost it means that there is at least one person

that has an interest in helping to rig,retreave and de rig .
It helps if you are friends but as long as you can get on its not
necessary.
It does mean the choice of ships is different because you have more money
but you both have to agree.
Jon

10.5 years in UK in two tours. Our syndicates were generally 4-way, often with one non-active partner. Yes kept costs down. Always an available seat. IIRC, at the end of my first 4.5 years I had logged at least 30 makes/models. Only 4-5 new during the second tour, but a lot more XC as I had I had interests in three gliders at one point; one wholly owned, one 3-way, and another 4-way.

In my own case, I made myself known at the glider port and got to know the other member pilots and their flying skills pretty well. That sort of engagement facilitates entering and leaving syndicates.

Frank Whiteley

I would add that in those days, you got trained by be engaged. Training was not done as a convenience, it was first come, first served. So if you arrived and put your name on the list, then helped rig the fleet (yes, a daily task), you might get a second lesson by getting your name back on the list after the first lesson. That mean the students were there all day and many members adjourned to the local pub for the evening. Some of the larger clubs had on-field amenities, which helped finance things also. That level of engagement made it much easier to form syndicate groups and allowed for a reasonable assessment of those in the group as participants.

Frank W

I own a DG 100
Glider $15,000
Insurance $800/yr
Storage $30/month
Annual $100/yr
Property taxes: $300/yr (varies greatly depending on where you live)

Knock on wood but I've owned it for almost 4 years and have had zero maintenance costs.

So, owning your own glider is a CHEAP way to fly. DON'T hesitate to buy a glider, DO hesitate to buy an expensive glider because it costs more at every level. Further, when the gelcoat starts cracking on your newer glider, its value will be significantly impacted. Buy something with 30:1 that is glass (even in poor shape) and 15 meters. That's all you need to get a Gold badge and then some.
DG 100
ASW 15
ASW 19
Russia AC4
LS-1

Pilots win contests with these gliders, you can too!