Kid day at the airport...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
We're talking about blatant violation of the FARs.

Really? What is the technical definition of a "cloud"?

I would say if you use the word "cloud" to describe it, it's a cloud.

If you're so sure it doesn't qualify as a cloud, why did you call it a
cloud? What is it, if not a cloud?

Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I would have liked this story better if you said "a scattered layer of
puffy clouds developed at around 4000 MSL, so I called approach for a
pop-up
IFR clearance so we could go cloud dancing..."

A pop-up IFR clearance to go cloud dancing?

Why not? Then if you want to fly through a larger cloud, you can do that
too. Unless you're in the middle of a busy approach corridor, you can ask
for a block altitude, radius of present location, or whatever. People
believe you can't do fun stuff like sightseeing or cloud chasing VFR...sure
you can, just need a clearance to do it.


Although there are many valid reasons to obtain an IR, IMHO your
example isn't one of them.

I appologize as I must have misread your post. I interpreted "dipping a
wing in the little puffies" as flying closer than 500 feet below the cloud,
1000 feet above, or 2000 feet laterally. I'm sorry for the
misunderstanding.

Really? What is the technical definition of a "cloud"?

I would say if you use the word "cloud" to describe it, it's a cloud.

If you're so sure it doesn't qualify as a cloud, why did you call it a
cloud? What is it, if not a cloud?

Well, it's truly a semantic problem. As the Eskimos have 60 words for
"snow", I think we need more words for "cloud."

I think we're also getting hung up on my use of the word "scattered" in
the story -- which, in FAA terminology, means a LOT more clouds (or
whatever they should be called; from hereout I shall call them
"puffies", meaning "less than cloud") than I was playing with. There
were far less than "few" (as the FAA would say), and the puffies were
aligned in a nice, neat row of about five miles in length.

I'm always surprised by the development of puffies in a row --
especially a sharply defined, very small row. It's hard to imagine
what is happening in the atmosphere to cause their development in such
a tighly defined area, but I see them fairly regularly around here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
A pop-up IFR clearance to go cloud dancing? We're talking about
dipping a wing in a puffy cloud the size of a semi-truck, separated by
1/2 mile from the next nearest similar-sized cloud.

We're talking about blatant violation of the FARs.

Really? What is the technical definition of a "cloud"?

Yes, really. As far as definition is concerned, the OED will do for me. "Visible
condensed water vapour suspended in the atmosphere high over the general level
of the ground."

If I can see through it, is it a "cloud"?

Yep. It just has to be visible.

Is there a size parameter?

Nope.

I've searched and can't find a technical definition of an
"FAA cloud".

The FAA usually feels that they don't have to define commonly used English
words. Webster's or Oxford already does that job nicely.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

I've searched and can't find a technical definition of an
"FAA cloud".

The FAA usually feels that they don't have to define commonly used English
words. Webster's or Oxford already does that job nicely.

So, you're telling me that I'd have to stay 1000 feet away from a cloud
the size of, say, my Subaru? How 'bout a basketball?

How about something you can see through to the other side? Is that
"cloud" or "haze"?

Mary and I have just spent a few minutes discussing the meaning of the
FAA cloud rules, and have come to this conclusion:

A "cloud" shall henceforth be defined as something that a plane can
hide behind -- period. If it can be seen through, or is small enough
so that an aircraft can't hide behind it, we shall not deem it to be a
"cloud", but shall rather refer to it as a "puffie" -- which we will be
allowed to play in.

:-)

Seriously, I think this definition gets to the spirit and meaning of
the FAR -- after all, the rule is there primarily to separate aircraft
-- and makes the most sense in practical terms.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

So, you're telling me that I'd have to stay 1000 feet away from a cloud
the size of, say, my Subaru? How 'bout a basketball?

No, the *FAA* is telling you that. I'm simply saying that failing to do that and
bragging about it on usenet is a blatant violation of the FARs.

A "cloud" shall henceforth be defined as something that a plane can
hide behind -- period.

Redefine English if you want; the State of New Jersey does it all the time.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

On 16 Sep 2005 11:14:49 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote
in .com::

So, you're telling me that I'd have to stay 1000 feet away from a cloud
the size of, say, my Subaru?

Actually, you have to stay _2,000' feet_ laterally away from the cloud
if you're dipping a wing into it.

So, you're telling me that I'd have to stay 1000 feet away from a cloud
the size of, say, my Subaru? How 'bout a basketball?

No, the *FAA* is telling you that. I'm simply saying that failing to do that and
bragging about it on usenet is a blatant violation of the FARs.

That's nonsense.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

George Patterson wrote:

I'm simply saying that failing to do that and
bragging about it on usenet is a blatant violation of the FARs.

Perhaps failing to remain clear of clouds by the legal requirements is a
violation of the FARS, but I don't think there is a FAR preventing Jay from
bragging about it on Usenet.

--
Peter


















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"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:g0EWe.9$iu5.6@trndny04...
Jay Honeck wrote:

So, you're telling me that I'd have to stay 1000 feet away from a cloud
the size of, say, my Subaru? How 'bout a basketball?

No, the *FAA* is telling you that. I'm simply saying that failing to do
that and bragging about it on usenet is a blatant violation of the FARs.


No George your wrong. The above should read: " I'm simply saying that
failing to do that is a blatant violation of the FARs and bragging about it
on usenet is a violation of good sense."