Refinishing Ventus b Fuselage

My shoulders ache just reading this.

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 5:43:08 AM UTC-7, POPS wrote:
'Richard Pfiffner[_2_ Wrote:
;976901']Pictures and process for refinishing a ventus b fuselage. Work
in progress pictures and process as work is completed.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ventus.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com


Yo, that's a great pic log. I know you said you'd never do it, but when
your all finished you could roll your old trusty-rusty all-terrain tow
vehicle in there, hook it onto that lazy-susan contraption and put the
spit shine to that sucker!
Just think how Gooood yud look coming and going!
Just think about it...




--
POPS

Previa has a new paint job already. 441,236 miles replaced the right door handle, never changed transmission fluid. changed spark plugs and engine oil.

On to 500K

I've always wondered if someone who wanted to create make a business refinishing gliders , here in the USA, make a go of it. It seems to me its a lot of semi skilled monotonous labor.
I've employed many Mexicans that are Really good with there hands and produce high quality work. And they want to work , show up everyday rain or snow or shine. These guys work for 15-17/hr here in Telluride.
I've told Craggy I can send him some help when he gets tired but so far he seems to keep moving forward on his own!

Ask that Kingair 350 owner how he liked having the rivet heads sanded off by semiskilled laborerers a few years ago. The airplane was totaled!

Well, most people, especially new at the job, need to be supervised, Thats why there are supervisors and managers.

Nick, the refinish question is a large problem for an aging fleet of gliders with gelcoat. That club GROB which is worth about $30,000 but needs refinishing will cost around $20,000 to refinish commercially if the club cannot do it using members sweat equity. Same with other aging gliders with gelcoat. There has to be a better way in which a single company with the right tools (think standing robot) could specialize in this type of refinish at a lower cost structure. Hats off to Richard for documenting his refinish project. There used to be a company in Eastern Europe that did refinish and refurbishment of older gliders. Anyone know if they are still in business?

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 2:56:36 PM UTC-4, John Seaborn (A8) wrote:
Nick, the refinish question is a large problem for an aging fleet of gliders with gelcoat. That club GROB which is worth about $30,000 but needs refinishing will cost around $20,000 to refinish commercially if the club cannot do it using members sweat equity. Same with other aging gliders with gelcoat. There has to be a better way in which a single company with the right tools (think standing robot) could specialize in this type of refinish at a lower cost structure. Hats off to Richard for documenting his refinish project. There used to be a company in Eastern Europe that did refinish and refurbishment of older gliders. Anyone know if they are still in business?

http://refinish.pl/en

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 11:49:08 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I've always wondered if someone who wanted to create make a business refinishing gliders , here in the USA, make a go of it. It seems to me its a lot of semi skilled monotonous labor.
I've employed many Mexicans that are Really good with there hands and produce high quality work. And they want to work , show up everyday rain or snow or shine. These guys work for 15-17/hr here in Telluride.
I've told Craggy I can send him some help when he gets tired but so far he seems to keep moving forward on his own!

Hey Nick,

It's an excellent question - some of us who have done more than 1 refinish have had a lot of time to ponder this question in the middle of every 4 hour sanding session :-)

Quick back of the envelope would be something like this:

- Routine full refinish of a standard class glider for a shop with the right tools, process and skills is around 450 hours (just as a baseline - YMMV)
- Rough SWAG suggests 25% skilled 75% un/semi-skilled
- Figure you want to charge the skilled labor at $60/hr and the un/semi-skilled at $25/hr (note - assume the owner/operator is the skilled guy/gal and that there is some margin on the un-skilled rate that goes to him/her as well)
- At those ratios and rates the labor for a refinish would be about:
* $6750 for the high-skilled
* $8500 for the un/semi-skilled
* Total labor around $15K +/-
- Add in another $5000 for materials and consumables, shop charges, other fixed costs
- You're at a $20K refinish +/- a few percent.
- You can argue around the margins a bit (say bill the unskilled out at $18/hr), but it's not going to end up with a $10K number.

Kind of explains why the only people refinishing 1st and 2nd generation glass are either DIY owners or clubs.

P3

Anyone know if they are still in business?

http://refinish.pl/en

https://www.aerospool.sk/index.php/e...f-gliders.html

P3
Thank you for the cost breakout. That 450 hour hurtle is a high one. I didn't realize it was so high, I would have guessed half that to 2/3rds of that 450 number.
AS
I contacted both company's on your posting requested a quote for shipping from the East Coast USA and a complete exterior refinish on my LS3a.
I'll report back on what I find out at today's rates.
Luckily my 1980 LS3a is still in good shape gelcoat wise, I keep it waxed and hope for the best.