F22 air dams/strakes: the definitive answer.

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:55:16 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

"You men like the 8 inchers added to the F-22 wings? "

That is what Lockmart said publicly about their airplane.

cite please.

redc1c4,
you lack the credibility to make unsupported statements of fact.
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

"redc1c4" wrote in message
...
Tarver Engineering wrote:

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:55:16 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

"You men like the 8 inchers added to the F-22 wings? "

That is what Lockmart said publicly about their airplane.

cite please.

No.

I don't have any need, or desire, to convence clueless socks of anything.
Although your quote from lockmart is interesting, it is very far from being
anything difinitive, as lockmart has already been caught lying several times
WRT the F-22.

In article ,
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

Except for the whole the remaining part where you were *certain* that
all production aircraft have them...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. com...
In article ,
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

Except for the whole the remaining part where you were *certain* that
all production aircraft have them...

I never wrote that, Irby, but I can see how you'd like to save face.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:
"Chad Irby" wrote:
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

Except for the whole the remaining part where you were *certain* that
all production aircraft have them...

I never wrote that, Irby,

Not in those exact words, but that was certainly what you were
contending for the last week or so.

And we're still waiting for those photos showing *any* of them on
production aircraft.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. com...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:
"Chad Irby" wrote:
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

Except for the whole the remaining part where you were *certain* that
all production aircraft have them...

I never wrote that, Irby,

Not in those exact words, but that was certainly what you were
contending for the last week or so.

Trying to put words in my mouth is not going to work, Irby.

And we're still waiting for those photos showing *any* of them on
production aircraft.

I never offered you photos.

Once Lockmart produces any two F-22's the same, then we can discuss
production configuration. Unit there are at least 500 hours on AV 19, there
is no reason to believe Lockmart has solved their structural problems.

Besides that, Irby, you have already been caugt being dishonest in this
thread.

As far as 'air dams' or strakes are concerned, they do not have to be
made of radar-reflecting material. The wing fences on the F102 were a
case in point. They were known to 'lie down' due to excessive spanwise
flow - the Deuce got a little edgy in yaw in low level turbulence at
high speed - 600+ - and every now and then after an air show one would
come back with the fences flat against the wing. They had no metal in
them AFIK, and were mostly some sort of honeycomb.
Walt BJ

Admin wrote in message ...
being a Cav Scout, i went and collected information......

i e-mailed "Lockmart" and received this reply today:


-----Original Message-----
From: redc1c4
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:48 PM
To: Caires, Greg A }
Subject: a quick question


i am participating in the newsgroup rec.aviation.military where the
discussion centers around the existence or lack thereof of "strakes"
or "air dams" in and around the vertical stabilizers of the F22.

the general consensus is that there were some affixed temporarily
after a problem was discovered, but that an engineering fix has made
them unnecessary, and for obvious reasons relating to stealth
characteristics, they have not been retained.

the quote in question is:
"The wing parts were added to correct the wash across the tail
occurring for the "entire flight envelope". Unless Lockmart has
addressed the tail crack issue in a different manner, the 8 inch
wing "reflectors" have to be there."

so, does the F-22 have such an attachment?
(assuming, of course, that this information is not classified.)

thanks in advance for your organization's time in this small matter.

reply portion follows

The discussion you've included is a bit mixed. There were two issues
that I think have become confused.

The first was a "tail crack" issue with the HORIZONTAL stabilators.
The composite skins were delaminating (pulling off the internal
structure). We redesigned the stabilator to include more titanium and
its working.

The fin buffet or tail flutter issue involved the VERTICAL stabilizers,
which was fixed by stiffening the internal structure with additional
titanium.

There are no air dams or strakes or anything else. Here is a recent
photo -- you should be able to see how smooth the jets external mold
lines are.

Thanks for asking,

Greg

i can forward the e-mail, should anyone feel the need.

the picture in question will be posted to ABPM.

i expect my apology from Tarver to be posted here in RAM.

redc1c4,
(but i won't be holding my breath %-)

That would be wise of you!

Brooks

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...
As far as 'air dams' or strakes are concerned, they do not have to be
made of radar-reflecting material. The wing fences on the F102 were a
case in point. They were known to 'lie down' due to excessive spanwise
flow - the Deuce got a little edgy in yaw in low level turbulence at
high speed - 600+ - and every now and then after an air show one would
come back with the fences flat against the wing. They had no metal in
them AFIK, and were mostly some sort of honeycomb.

Hopefully lockmart is flying the crap out of AV19 and the F-22's structural
issues can be put behind them. That would leave the avionics and weapons
integration problems to work.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:29:07 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"redc1c4" wrote in message
. ..
Tarver Engineering wrote:

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:55:16 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

So what I wrote in the first place is correct.

"You men like the 8 inchers added to the F-22 wings? "

That is what Lockmart said publicly about their airplane.

cite please.

No.

I don't have any need, or desire, to convence clueless socks of anything.
Although your quote from lockmart is interesting, it is very far from being
anything difinitive, as lockmart has already been caught lying several times
WRT the F-22.

Yeah we already knew you couldn't prove anything you've said about
this. I'd have thought you'd at least have had the balls to admit it
since it's obvious you don't know your head from your ass on this one
but no, typically Tarver: a no nads, know nothing, poser.