Jet fighter top speed at military power

I think it has more to do with the government/military original
specifications, I would think it goes something like this..

Military "We'd like a M2.5 aircraft..."

Manufacturer "Ah but they would require a variable inlet more
development work and thats more expensive!!"

Military "so how fast can you go without all the extra expence?"

Manufacturer " about M2.0"

Military " Ok close enough"

These figures are then carried through the life of the program, even
when those figures are exceeded by a large margin..


cheers


I've seen it go both ways. I've seen many say a clean F-4 could no
way in hell break 2.2 clean despite the fact it reached 2.62 when it
was going for the speed record (yes I'm aware of the water injection
etc. etc.) On the other hand there was someone a while back that said
they were familiar with an individual who reached 2.83 in an F-111F
briefly even though it's generally listed as 2.5. I know I remember
reading that it was limited to five minutes at a shot over 2.2 or so
because of heating. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to
get a clean aircraft up to it's optimum altitude, top of the tanks,
and put the pedal to the metal until you either stopped accelerating,
were about to exceed heating limits, or were out of gas. LOL I wish
they'd do that for aircraft about to be retired anyway. I'd have
loved it if the Blackbird would have went out with new high marks for
speed and altitude. Oh well.

I've seen it go both ways. I've seen many say a clean F-4 could no
way in hell break 2.2 clean despite the fact it reached 2.62 when it
was going for the speed record (yes I'm aware of the water injection
etc. etc.)

Early F-4B's were good for an easy 2.2 (skinny wing and lack of add-on
antennas) and I suspect with the right conditions and trimmed engines,
somewhat more. Best I saw was 2.05 out of a late J (S-config without the
slats) and it had the wing pylons attached. The Skyburner F-4 was the early
one with small nose and canopy ... certainly not representative of
production A/C.

On the other hand there was someone a while back that said
they were familiar with an individual who reached 2.83 in an F-111F
briefly even though it's generally listed as 2.5.

I've heard a number of claims for the F as well. It had higher thrust
engines and w/o pylons etc was VERY clean.

I know I remember
reading that it was limited to five minutes at a shot over 2.2 or so
because of heating. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to
get a clean aircraft up to it's optimum altitude, top of the tanks,
and put the pedal to the metal until you either stopped accelerating,
were about to exceed heating limits, or were out of gas.

It's usually gas and (these days) airspace. The F-8U3 never exceeded 2.39
because of canopy problems. Inlet heating is also a biggie.

LOL I wish
they'd do that for aircraft about to be retired anyway. I'd have
loved it if the Blackbird would have went out with new high marks for
speed and altitude.

I think they came pretty close with the last records. I asked Darryl
Greenameyer why the SR couldn't just do a nice smooth pull up from 80K for
the absolute altitude record and he said it wouldn't work.

R / John

I think they came pretty close with the last records. I asked Darryl
Greenameyer why the SR couldn't just do a nice smooth pull up from 80K for
the absolute altitude record and he said it wouldn't work.

R / John

It still boggles my mind that that Mig-25 made it all the way to
123,000ft.

On one of the last flights (for the Air Force anyway) when they set a
few new records the Blackbird flew one stretch of the flight at 2242
mph or Mach 3.4.

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...

On one of the last flights (for the Air Force anyway) when they set a
few new records the Blackbird flew one stretch of the flight at 2242
mph or Mach 3.4.

The official absolute speed record still belongs to retired Major General
Eldon W. Joersz at 2,193mph set in June 1976 using the SR-71.

Tex

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:07:23 -0700, "Tex Houston"
wrote:


"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
.. .

On one of the last flights (for the Air Force anyway) when they set a
few new records the Blackbird flew one stretch of the flight at 2242
mph or Mach 3.4.

The official absolute speed record still belongs to retired Major General
Eldon W. Joersz at 2,193mph set in June 1976 using the SR-71.

Tex

Yep. I'm wondering if it's becuase the the "offical" gates that the
FAI recognized were at the beginning and end of the flight or
something along those lines.

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:07:23 -0700, "Tex Houston"
wrote:

The official absolute speed record still belongs to retired Major General
Eldon W. Joersz at 2,193mph set in June 1976 using the SR-71.

Tex

Yep. I'm wondering if it's becuase the the "offical" gates that the
FAI recognized were at the beginning and end of the flight or
something along those lines.

Almost certainly. If going after an existing record you have to comply with
the rules. One of the easiest tasks is to go about setting records for
which nothing presently exists. Lots of point-to-point records have been
done this way. Absolute records...a different story.

As an aside, I know Eldon from his F-105 days when he was a First
Lieutenant.

Tex

During flight test the clean E with PW-229s easily cruised above M 1.0 at
mil,
whether accelerating up to it or decelerating down to it. It is not likely
the
fully loaded E can do this.

By clean, do you mean w/o conformal tanks? By easily cruised, do you mean
accelerated through mach w/o resorting to A/B? Is this based on personal
experience?

Yes. Yes. Yes (from the control room).

John Carrier wrote:

Early F-4B's were good for an easy 2.2 (skinny wing and lack of add-on
antennas) and I suspect with the right conditions and trimmed engines,
somewhat more. Best I saw was 2.05 out of a late J (S-config without the
slats) and it had the wing pylons attached. The Skyburner F-4 was the early
one with small nose and canopy ... certainly not representative of
production A/C.

Most of the F-4 (E-model) mach logs I saw topped out
about 1.8-1.9, with only a few FCFs pushing it to 2.2
or so.

However, in those (1970) days of slick wings (no slats)
and the short gun fairing, I did see one F-4E come out
of phase and pull a mach 2.4 FCF before returning to
the flightline at Korat. Nobody believed it - so they
checked the TAS system. It was accurate. A dirty old
warbird from the Korat flightline could still pull 2.4
without any preparation (other than pylon/stores removal).

However, in those (1970) days of slick wings (no slats)
and the short gun fairing, I did see one F-4E come out
of phase and pull a mach 2.4 FCF before returning to
the flightline at Korat. Nobody believed it - so they
checked the TAS system. It was accurate. A dirty old
warbird from the Korat flightline could still pull 2.4
without any preparation (other than pylon/stores removal).

Skinny nose and -19 (??? IIRC) engines helped I'm sure.

R / John